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Old 01-06-2008, 09:37 AM
 
902 posts, read 717,689 times
Reputation: 184

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Ah, once again, you are sadly misinformed - or, to put it another way - you are wrong.

You don't live with the illegal immigration problem - you don't live with the adverse consequences - you don't live with the overcrowded schools - the overcrowed hospitals because of illegal immigration - the increased crime - the degradation of communities - all because of illegal immigration

In other words - you don't know what you are talking about
True. I have noticed that from the very first post I saw him make in here.
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Old 01-06-2008, 09:42 AM
 
8,978 posts, read 16,552,765 times
Reputation: 3020
I'm not sure the opposition to illegal immigration is based on 'false economics'---that could easily be remedied by BRINGING IN the necessary workers (assuming they're needed), rather than having them show up uninvited, and then bully and shame us into 'accomodating' them....BIG difference, it seems to me.

The fact is, all other arguments aside, illegal immigration, like ALL illegal activity,---(particularly when it's CONDONED by those in power)--is enormously DISRESPECTFUL to any 'Nation of Laws'-- such as the US supposedly is.

America's unique freedoms have been largely the result of the fact that, in our society's view, our LAWS have been written by US---for OUR benefit---and can be CHANGED by us, when and if the need arises. For this reason, there is a strong societal presure to OBEY these "good", self-imposed, beneficial laws.

In a dictatorship (for example, Cuba), or even a less-free society (such as Mexico), there is little or no moral pressure to obey the law, because the law there (and those who ADMINISTER the law, and the entire SYSTEM of the law itself) aren't fair----therefore there's no shame in breaking or ignoring the law. Here in the US, we've taken it upon ourselves to make sure our society is 'different'. Our laws, imposed by US, upon OURSELVES, are 'fair', and should be obeyed for that reason, not because we're 'forced' into obedience. We've obeyed our laws, in large measure because they ARE 'our' laws---not those imposed upon us by somebody 'higher up'....

Illegal immigration is eroding all that. It involves massive disrespect, not only by the 'immigrants' themselves (after all, they're lawbreakers--we'd EXPECT them to break laws)--but by the very police and politicians who are supposed to UPHOLD our laws. It's a tremendously harmful example for the rest of us, corrosive to the very notion of a lawful society----and the law is all we have holding us together. Lose our respect for law, and it may have to be replaced by brute force....sound like fun? I don't think so, but that's the way most of the world operates---and there's no guarantee at all that it couldn't happen here, History is FULL of things that 'couldn't happen', but DID.

As far as the example of "The Economist" goes, I'm not sure I'm ready to take any advice on how to run a society just now from any source in Great Britain. I seem to hear disturbing reports from that part of the world about angry, disrespectful, unassimilable immigrants, spewing hateful rants toward their 'hosts', the 'natives', (who insist that this is 'OK', in view of their nation's wonderful 'free speech' laws--and the exciting multicultural tone of the whole thing.). Meanwhile, though, these ungrateful immigrants are apparently causing a massive change in society--including rapidly-disappearing individual freedoms...freedoms for which Great Britain was once the envy of the world, now being willingly tossed aside, because that's the only way to keep a 'lid on things'....

To ME, that doesn't sound like a very appealing future. I'll thank the folks of Great Britain for their heartfelt advice on immigration, but I think I'd rather we take a different approach over here.....As I said, there's a lot more to it than just a question of "economics'---(and even the economic benefits, I'm afraid, remain VERY MUCH in doubt)...

Last edited by macmeal; 01-06-2008 at 09:58 AM..
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Old 01-06-2008, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Eagan, Minnesota
751 posts, read 1,177,898 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Sorry - you have never met an economist -
Most of my undergrad professors have Ph.D's in Economics. We discussed the immigration issue in depth in Labor Economics. Maybe you know something they don't.
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Old 01-06-2008, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,249,485 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeache View Post
Maybe you know something they don't.
Yes, I do
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Old 01-06-2008, 09:54 AM
 
902 posts, read 717,689 times
Reputation: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Yes, I do
LOLOL and of course no person ever says the fact that Lou Dobbs is an economist and that is what his degree is in and he agrees that illegals hurt the economy more than they help.
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Old 01-06-2008, 09:55 AM
 
1,304 posts, read 3,341,913 times
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The problems Americans are facing with illegals is not in a book!
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Old 01-06-2008, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Eagan, Minnesota
751 posts, read 1,177,898 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
As I said, there's a lot more to it than just a question of "economics'---(and even the economic benefits, I'm afraid, remain VERY MUCH in doubt)...
Economics is the ONLY reason. People here act like Bernanke and Greenspan do not know what is going on, or as if politicians have to be constantly reminded about the "immigration problem". That is ludicrous! Obviously, things are the way they are because it is working for the economy and that is ALL that matters in this capitalist system. Go on and continue to send your letters to your representatives reminding them of the immigraton"problem". As if there is no economical reason for things to be the way they are. Wake up!!
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Old 01-06-2008, 09:57 AM
 
902 posts, read 717,689 times
Reputation: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arizona Bound View Post
The problems Americans are facing with illegals is not in a book!

BINGO!!!!!
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Old 01-06-2008, 10:07 AM
 
1,736 posts, read 4,743,293 times
Reputation: 1445
Quote:
Originally Posted by ian6479 View Post
The article is about immigration in general, not just the US. Your comments are from a person who has either not read the article or doesn't understand it.
My response was from your posted words not the link.

I completely understand the “opinion article” and if I was viewing the US immigration problem from a vacuum as you and the author of the article are I may share your perspective.
However I have first hand experience in California with what has occurred in the past 30 years. So don’t even think of telling me “I don’t understand it”.
As I said worry about your country and leave it to real Americans to fix the US problems.

Keep the borders open, MY A$$!
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Old 01-06-2008, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,249,485 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeache View Post
Economics is the ONLY reason.
Once again, you are WRONG

Come LIVE in an area with lots of Illegal immigrants

I GUARANTEE your opinion will change

OBTW - get your nose out of a book - and come live in the real world
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