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Okay then. But since this thread was about the illegals who commit criminal acts while here, it sounded as if you were excusing them.
.
As you can see that wasn't the case. I was replying to a specific comment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by berdee
We have plenty of home-grown laborers. No citizen wants to work for 'less than' minimum wage, And skilled workers, such as those in construction, etc., don't want to work for peanuts either.
Claiming there's "not enough workers" and that illegals are "only doing the jobs that people don't want to do", are lame excuses that the pro-illegals had made up.
We don't have enough workers, many of the western nations no longer do. Between low birth rates, felons, intellectually disabled people, and physically handicapped people, we simply do not have enough people to do all the jobs we have. We have perhaps 25 million illegals and their children in the workforce and even with that high number employers are often found scrounging for employees. What you may see as a lame excuse is more likely the reality of the situation.
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Originally Posted by berdee
Why? Because they don't like paying a fair wage? Too bad.
It seems the farmers are taking matter into their own hands and saying "Too bad" themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by berdee
No one who comes here illegally should be allowed to stay. period. If they want to stay, then they should go through the legal immigration process and immigrate legally...there is absolutely nothing stopping them from doing that.
It is doable. Citizens will adapt and pick up the slack. They'll go back to working the jobs that the illegals had taken, as long as the businesses offer fair wages.
You think it is doable, I don't think it is nor desirable given the ramifications.
Ideally an agreement could be reached, but that doesn't seem likely at this time.
Location: 23.7 million to 162 million miles North of Venus
23,626 posts, read 12,553,459 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ticking
As you can see that wasn't the case. I was replying to a specific comment.
There was nothing in that posters comment that was about the "labor force".
Quote:
We don't have enough workers, many of the western nations no longer do. Between low birth rates, felons, intellectually disabled people, and physically handicapped people, we simply do not have enough people to do all the jobs we have. We have perhaps 25 million illegals and their children in the workforce and even with that high number employers are often found scrounging for employees. What you may see as a lame excuse is more likely the reality of the situation.
While it is true that the baby boomers are aging/dying out, we still have many millions of people who are capable of working but who aren't working. Perhaps a revamp of the welfare system should be considered. Welfare was designed as a short-term safety net, not as lifetime or generational income. Also, the predatory businesses that pay slave wages should be looked at - hard.
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It seems the farmers are taking matter into their own hands and saying "Too bad" themselves.
You like that they're paying slave wages?
Quote:
You think it is doable, I don't think it is nor desirable given the ramifications.
Ideally an agreement could be reached, but that doesn't seem likely at this time.
Yes, it is doable. You just don't want it to be. Why do you want a slave class?
"EL PASO, Texas — The Enforcement and Removal Operations (ERO) El Paso field office removed two undocumented noncitizen fugitives wanted in El Salvador, Jan. 6 – one is wanted for homicide and the other for human trafficking."
There was nothing in that posters comment that was about the "labor force".
While it is true that the baby boomers are aging/dying out, we still have many millions of people who are capable of working but who aren't working. Perhaps a revamp of the welfare system should be considered. Welfare was designed as a short-term safety net, not as lifetime or generational income. Also, the predatory businesses that pay slave wages should be looked at - hard.
You like that they're paying slave wages?
Yes, it is doable. You just don't want it to be. Why do you want a slave class?
I keep pointing out that the only jobs where there might be a labor shortage of workers are for "unnecessary" jobs that don't pay a liveable wage. We are flooded with those types of jobs. Guess what happens when you import foreigners for them instead of just allowing them to fold up a die? These foreigners end up on the public dole to supplement their social and living costs and add to that the overcrowded conditions and the additional schools, healthcare facilities, housing, etc. that are needed to accomodate them and the added stress to our social and natural resources. Only a fool would think that the latter is a good idea or someone who profits from them.
There’s also the fact that if you add these people, they will also be in need of services that require ever more illegals. A system like that is never ending, until the nation itself is rung out and destroyed.
With our current diseased system, if we where to amnesty 25 million illegals, 30 million will be needed to replace them. Rinse and repeat.
I also dont have to remind people that when automation starts to annihilate low level jobs, having 50 million poor people is going to be a heck of a lot better than having 150 million.
There was nothing in that posters comment that was about the "labor force".
I was replying to a poster's comment. You are replying to a reply, and I see nothing for me to reply to in your post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by berdee
While it is true that the baby boomers are aging/dying out, we still have many millions of people who are capable of working but who aren't working. Perhaps a revamp of the welfare system should be considered. Welfare was designed as a short-term safety net, not as lifetime or generational income. Also, the predatory businesses that pay slave wages should be looked at - hard.
Well go ahead and push for welfare reform and see if you can get some workers from that group. I don't think there are enough genuine hard workers there, but I'm open to being incorrect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by berdee
You like that they're paying slave wages?
You talking about the farmers here. I don't think they are paying slave wages.
Quote:
Originally Posted by berdee
Yes, it is doable. You just don't want it to be. Why do you want a slave class?
I'm not convinced it is doable.
I'm convinced that many of the labors find that they have upward mobility. The ones that don't seem to be surviving better than they might be otherwise on minimum wages or a little above. I'd say we should consider legalization of a lot of the workers and do a better job with the border going forward. So, as you can see, I'm not for a slave class, I'm for finding a workable solution which keeps our workforce intact. I think the government is more behind this as well and has made a calculation that if they are going to upset somebody it isn't going to be the people getting the country's work done.
Location: 23.7 million to 162 million miles North of Venus
23,626 posts, read 12,553,459 times
Reputation: 10485
Quote:
Originally Posted by ticking
I was replying to a poster's comment. You are replying to a reply, and I see nothing for me to reply to in your post.
twist away.
Fact is, that poster said nothing about jobs or labor, but rather about criminal illegals...which is what this particular thread is about. But I get it, you want to deflect from talking about the illegals committing crimes to push your false leftist talking points about how we need the illegals to save us from ourselves.
Quote:
Well go ahead and push for welfare reform and see if you can get some workers from that group. I don't think there are enough genuine hard workers there, but I'm open to being incorrect.
You talking about the farmers here. I don't think they are paying slave wages.
I'm not convinced it is doable.
I'm convinced that many of the labors find that they have upward mobility. The ones that don't seem to be surviving better than they might be otherwise on minimum wages or a little above. I'd say we should consider legalization of a lot of the workers and do a better job with the border going forward. So, as you can see, I'm not for a slave class, I'm for finding a workable solution which keeps our workforce intact. I think the government is more behind this as well and has made a calculation that if they are going to upset somebody it isn't going to be the people getting the country's work done.
It's doable. And anyone who'd actually been paying attention over the past few decades would know it, after watching citizens who 'want and were doing the jobs' being replaced by illegals because illegals are cheaply bought. And, no one who enters illegally should EVER become a citizen.
Now, since that is settled, how about stopping with your deflections and get back on the topic of this thread...criminal illegals.
What would you suggest should be done so that we keep the criminal illegals from entering our country to begin with, instead of waiting until after they'd entered illegally and then robbed, beaten, killed, raped, etc., our citizens?
Fwiw, I realize that not 'all' of them can be stopped from entering illegally, but what is your suggestion for slowing the flood down to a trickle?
Build and staff the wall.
Have a president that follows the law.
Send illegals packing and make refugees wait in MX.
Stop the freebies to illegals and refugees.
Stop birthright citizenship to children of illegals.
Stop giving amnesty and citizenship to illegals.
etc.....
What would you suggest should be done so that we keep the criminal illegals from entering our country to begin with, instead of waiting until after they'd entered illegally and then robbed, beaten, killed, raped, etc., our citizens?
Fwiw, I realize that not 'all' of them can be stopped from entering illegally, but what is your suggestion for slowing the flood down to a trickle?
Build and staff the wall.
Have a president that follows the law.
Send illegals packing and make refugees wait in MX.
Stop the freebies to illegals and refugees.
Stop birthright citizenship to children of illegals.
Stop giving amnesty and citizenship to illegals.
etc.....
What's your ideas on the matter??
Under the current system clearly all criminals can't be screened, of course that would also be the case if govt. was vetting them but to a lesser extent. If I could wave a wand, I would enforce severe prison sentences on violent criminals. Much more severe than currently, make it clear if you are an illegal entering the country and you are caught committing a violent crime you are going to serve a lot of prison time before deported, if you live through your prison sentence.
If the government was interested in slowing illegals to a trickle, I think your suggestions would be fine. I don't think the will is there because we need them a lot more than you seem to think and I suppose the govt. has calculated the greater good is to leave things the way they are.
Overall, having the reasonable goal to thwart most violent criminal activity we should create a large disincentive with sentencing. With a group of millions of 10's of millions we can't exterminate crime but we can cut it back a lot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by berdee
twist away.
Fact is, that poster said nothing about jobs or labor, but rather about criminal illegals...which is what this particular thread is about. But I get it, you want to deflect from talking about the illegals committing crimes to push your false leftist talking points about how we need the illegals to save us from ourselves.
why would you think I need to 'twist'? The poster didn't bring up jobs or labor, but I did as it creates more of a bigger picture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by berdee
It's doable. And anyone who'd actually been paying attention over the past few decades would know it,
I'd say anyone who has been paying attention of the past few decades would see that the opposite of what you are saying. The evidence is compounding daily.
Location: 23.7 million to 162 million miles North of Venus
23,626 posts, read 12,553,459 times
Reputation: 10485
Quote:
Originally Posted by ticking
Under the current system clearly all criminals can't be screened, of course that would also be the case if govt. was vetting them but to a lesser extent. If I could wave a wand, I would enforce severe prison sentences on violent criminals. Much more severe than currently, make it clear if you are an illegal entering the country and you are caught committing a violent crime you are going to serve a lot of prison time before deported, if you live through your prison sentence.
Keep them out to begin with and we wouldn't have to deal with the problems they bring, or the cost to incarcerate them either.
Quote:
If the government was interested in slowing illegals to a trickle, I think your suggestions would be fine. I don't think the will is there because we need them a lot more than you seem to think and I suppose the govt. has calculated the greater good is to leave things the way they are.
Overall, having the reasonable goal to thwart most violent criminal activity we should create a large disincentive with sentencing. With a group of millions of 10's of millions we can't exterminate crime but we can cut it back a lot.
Yes, they calculated which ones would vote their way.
Quote:
why would you think I need to 'twist'? The poster didn't bring up jobs or labor, but I did as it creates more of a bigger picture.
Except, what you brought up is off topic to this particular thread.
Quote:
I'd say anyone who has been paying attention of the past few decades would see that the opposite of what you are saying. The evidence is compounding daily.
Really? lol. Apparently, you refuse to recognize the citizens who were being replaced for the cheaper, and often shoddy, labor that the illegals offered. Unlike you, I saw and heard them.
That is a fair assessment. The way you describe it as a diseased system.
Moreover, it is a Traitorous system. More over that, there was Evil inserted into the equation. It is legit EVIL that is inside of the entire apparatus.
And furthermore, it is evil but is also intentional and UNINTELLIGENT. The people who masterminded all of this ruining are not too bright but it would be easy to examine the architecture and first think we were outsmarted by a very smart group of evil people but the truth is they are not that smart. They are just pure evil and scheming.
It is just SCHEMING. Global schemers that honestly, nobody likes. And I mean that, NOBODY on earth likes the architects that inserted this evil into the USA. NOBODY LIKES YOU EVIL SCUM. Scheming to outsmart the globe with your evil is just EVIL.
Inserted? More than likely homegrown “schemers” who are allied with the global ones. Evil starts local
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