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The last amnesty only encouraged many many more to come.
The only way to prevent floods of people from coming over the border, and in these economic times we face, we cannot take in millions more people, is to not reward illegal behavior and promise them citizenship just for having broken our laws.
Leave them illegal at the very least, that's the choice they made. They know they can return home and apply to come the right way, like others manage to do. Or they may decide at some point to go home and build their lives there, see their children and stay to raise them.
Even if you don't do big round-ups there's no good reason to legalize people who willingly broke the laws. Leave them illegal. Then when they mis-behave you can deport them. Let those who follow the legal process get the citizenship and right to stay. Cut off all welfare handouts, all government programs to illegals, fine employers of illegals with fines that mean something. Many illegals will self-deport if they cannot find work or receive government handouts.
It's silly to claim that nothing can be done because nothing has been done yet. Impossible to get 12 million (or 30 million) people into Mexico? Well -- they didn't have much trouble getting into the USA.
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 19,493,864 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuxEtoiles
This will be my last post here. I have much better things to do, like proactively advocate for immigration reform, than waste my time trying to have a civil debate on this online message board, where people can hide behind their screen names and posters are reduced to faceless ideologies.
mkfarnam, you completely missed the point on my drivers licenses analogy. I was referring to the intensity of the crime, not whether the criminal is here legally or not. Murder, rape and theft are committed by citizens, legal residents and illegal immigrants alike. The twelve million illegal immigrants here are less likely, due to their numbers and their prime focus--work--to commit heinous acts than the two previous categories. And gradients of illegallity do exist. That is why American law, and indeed virtually every other legal system on Earth, has the principle of "the punishment must fit the crime." Not all crimes are equal, or else we would be would have equal punishment for everyone from murderer to litterer, to undocumented immigrant to purgerer.
Also, don't you dare question my motivations and patriotism. My intention was not to start arguments. I am not a troll; I have a brain. Refer to my original post on, I believe, page 4. I have seen the postings of people who come to start arguments, people who do not think and defer to their emotions with one-liners or insult-laden, misspelled garbage, and I am not one of those people.
My ideas are what is best for this country. If I did not believe that, I would not hold these beliefs. Illegal immigration is wrong. But what would be worse for our country is doing nothing and letting the problem grow. Comprehensive immigration reform, earned legalization taking into account illegal entry, along with improvements on the flaws in IRCA, makes the most sense and is the best thing for our country right now. Deporting twelve million people, forcibly or through attrition as some think is the answer, will not work. True patriots refuse to let their judgement be clouded by "La Raza" or "invasion" or "cockroach" rhetoric and will decide for or against any CIR on their own, examing ALL of the facts, without such emotional and quite frankly hateful diatribe.
In any case, some form of legalization, piecemeal or whole, will become law no matter who becomes the next President. Both Obama and McCain support it, and it has bipartisan support, as well as opposition. It will not be put off for another eight years. I can only hope you will examine both sides of this argument and judge for yourself whether it is right or wrong to do.
Regards,
AuxEtoiles
Anyone who turns against a fellow AMERICAN...must be prepared for the consequences,
This will be my last post here. I have much better things to do, like proactively advocate for immigration reform, than waste my time trying to have a civil debate on this online message board, where people can hide behind their screen names and posters are reduced to faceless ideologies.
mkfarnam, you completely missed the point on my drivers licenses analogy. I was referring to the intensity of the crime, not whether the criminal is here legally or not. Murder, rape and theft are committed by citizens, legal residents and illegal immigrants alike. The twelve million illegal immigrants here are less likely, due to their numbers and their prime focus--work--to commit heinous acts than the two previous categories. And gradients of illegallity do exist. That is why American law, and indeed virtually every other legal system on Earth, has the principle of "the punishment must fit the crime." Not all crimes are equal, or else we would be would have equal punishment for everyone from murderer to litterer, to undocumented immigrant to purgerer.
Also, don't you dare question my motivations and patriotism. My intention was not to start arguments. I am not a troll; I have a brain. Refer to my original post on, I believe, page 4. I have seen the postings of people who come to start arguments, people who do not think and defer to their emotions with one-liners or insult-laden, misspelled garbage, and I am not one of those people.
My ideas are what is best for this country. If I did not believe that, I would not hold these beliefs. Illegal immigration is wrong. But what would be worse for our country is doing nothing and letting the problem grow. Comprehensive immigration reform, earned legalization taking into account illegal entry, along with improvements on the flaws in IRCA, makes the most sense and is the best thing for our country right now. Deporting twelve million people, forcibly or through attrition as some think is the answer, will not work. True patriots refuse to let their judgement be clouded by "La Raza" or "invasion" or "cockroach" rhetoric and will decide for or against any CIR on their own, examing ALL of the facts, without such emotional and quite frankly hateful diatribe.
In any case, some form of legalization, piecemeal or whole, will become law no matter who becomes the next President. Both Obama and McCain support it, and it has bipartisan support, as well as opposition. It will not be put off for another eight years. I can only hope you will examine both sides of this argument and judge for yourself whether it is right or wrong to do.
Regards,
AuxEtoiles
I'm simply amazed by the fact that you, the one person on the planet whose ideas are what is best for this country, (and we know this because you have said it is so) have deigned to visit our poor little forum while bestowing the gems of your unimpeachable wisdom upon us. I know that we should be much more grateful than we actually are--but you just have to forgive us. After all, we're all nothing more than a bunch of narrow minded, hateful xenophobes and we just don't have that certain je ne sais quoi that seems to run through the very marrow of those of you who advocate for "Compassionate Immigration Reform."
The view from that Ivory Tower of yours must be amazing.
There is absolutely nothing hateful about wanting the laws of your country enforced. There is nothing hateful about requiring people to follow the letter of the law before handing out precious American citizenship as if it were no more salient than last year's leftover Halloween candy.
I'm so sick of you people who are so blinded by your need to devalue American citizenship by handing it out to lawbreakers. I guarantee you that the country of origin of the vast majority of illegal aliens is not nearly so cavalier with its own citizenship.
Before you start salivating over the possibility of some sort of reform which would hand over American citizenship to criminals, you should recall that frustrated, angry Americans have stopped Amnesty in its tracks numerous times in very recent history, and we will continue to do so.
True patriots follow the letter of the law and that does not include rewarding those who flaunt it.
By the way, on your way out, don't let the door hit'cha where the good lord split'cha.
It would be better for Mexico, it would help build stability to have as many of these people return home as possible.
The massive migration of people out has not brought about anything good. It has brought about much instability. Massive migration results from social injustice and instability but massive migration only leads to more social injustice and instability.
It's time this be stopped. Mexicans need to stay in Mexico and start working to make positive change there. They need to build their home towns, they need to stay home and raise their children because children need their parents in the home raising them far more than they need a monthly remittance check.
Obama wants to redistribute wealth. I think the Mexican govt needs to do the same thing so America isn't burdened by Mexico's poor.
Go home to your country of origin and get in line behind those legal immigrants whose love and respect for the United States of America is evident in their desire to follow the letter of the law in order to be here.
That's as much compassion as I'm willing to give.
This country was originally found by Native Americans and was taken by the Europeans. How you going to tell people to go back to their country of origin when parts of California, Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona was part of Mexico and before that Native Americans. This country wouldn't be in the position it is in now if it wasn't for the help of other countries like China, Japan, and the help of African slaves, and Chinese workers that built the railroads. Its obvious that the cities in California and southwestern states was part of Mexico, because of their spanish names.
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 19,493,864 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicagoland60426
This country was originally found by Native Americans and was taken by the Europeans. How you going to tell people to go back to their country of origin when parts of California, Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona was part of Mexico and before that Native Americans. This country wouldn't be in the position it is in now if it wasn't for the help of other countries like China, Japan, and the help of African slaves, and Chinese workers that built the railroads. Its obvious that the cities in California and southwestern states was part of Mexico, because of their spanish names.
This was cut and pasted.
The this history of this country is irrelevant.........What this this country is today and in the future is whats relevant.
The this country is irrelevant.........What this this country is today in the future is whats relevant.
Your missing the whole point.
I'm not missing the point, I was replying to the person that made that comment. Anyway, to get a citizenship in America, it takes years to be consider a legal citizen. America will have to change the immigration laws if it want to reduce the illegal immigration.My theory is If it didn't take so long to be a legal citizen, maybe we wouldn't have immigrants coming here illegal. The economy is messed up right now thanks to George Bush. This country don't need another Republican after what George Bush did.
This country was originally found by Native Americans and was taken by the Europeans. How you going to tell people to go back to their country of origin when parts of California, Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona was part of Mexico and before that Native Americans. This country wouldn't be in the position it is in now if it wasn't for the help of other countries like China, Japan, and the help of African slaves, and Chinese workers that built the railroads. Its obvious that the cities in California and southwestern states was part of Mexico, because of their spanish names.
I am well aware of the history of the country. My ancestry is Native American and European. However, my European ancestors did not emigrate illegally.
Not for one moment do I discount the contributions of immigrants. Of course America was built upon the hard work of immigrants. If a person is not a Native American Indian, then they obviously come from immigrant stock. So who else would have been building this country? Martians?
It was not the work of the countries you named which made America what it is today, but the work of those immigrants and children of immigrants--and they came from all over the world, not just Asia or Africa. The Irish, the Germans, the Polish, the Spanish, the Portuguese, the Norwegians, the Scots, the Brits,--immigrants from all over the world made this country into something extraordinary, not those from a few select countries.
Louisiana once belonged to France, Northern California to the Russians--however, we don't see their illegal immigrants coming into this country with the intention of "taking back" this land.
By the way, a little history lesson for you.
Mexico owned parts of California, parts of the Southwest, and Texas for less than 25 years.
Twenty-five years.
France held the entire central portion of the United States (a great deal more land) for a great deal longer.
You don't see French illegal immigrants flooding over here by the millions with the encouragement of its President as he declares, "Where ever there is a French person, there is France."
I stand by my earlier statement.
Legal immigrants I welcome with open arms. All illegal immigrants need to go back where they came from.
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