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Old 05-04-2009, 06:43 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,909,393 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I couldn’t agree more. He expects those who illegally reside in this country to be accorded the same rights and privileges as those who chose to abide by our laws. I liken it to offering refunds or exchanges to shoplifters. I’m sorry, but there is a right way and a wrong way to enter this country; and illegal aliens have chosen the wrong way. Thus, we owe them nothing.

BTW, excellent posts, as usual.
Except that shoplifters and illegal immigrants have different motives and entirely different groups.

Helping illegals, will help our nation. Period. If education is a big concern, let's educate them. If legalization is a concern, find an exchange to legalize them (if you do blank then you will receive blank)

Our system is really prohibitive. Just because other nations do it, doesn't mean it's right.
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Old 05-04-2009, 06:44 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,909,393 times
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Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Why not just reduce this to the ridiculous. We can capture as many illegal aliens as possible and reinstate slavery. They can work the plantations and the plantation owners can provide their room and board. We won’t permit them to receive an education, which will reduce our educational deficits tremendously. There will be no need for tax-funded freebies because the slave owners will assume 100% responsibility for them. How’s that for an historical precedent?
What? That's makes no sense and isn't really relevant...so...again what are you trying to say?
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Old 05-04-2009, 06:46 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,909,393 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Why should we have to “change” and “adapt” for those who reside in this country illegally? If someone broke into your house, would you feel compelled to accommodate them? The U.S. is OUR HOUSE!
Because changing and adapting to a new situation is needed. Otherwise things will be either too costly for my generation (mass deporation and an infrastructure of ridiculous border safe gaurds), or again, too costly for my generation (an underclass which needs more government support than currently).
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Old 05-04-2009, 06:47 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,171 posts, read 18,569,444 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Except that shoplifters and illegal immigrants have different motives and entirely different groups.

Helping illegals, will help our nation. Period. If education is a big concern, let's educate them. If legalization is a concern, find an exchange to legalize them (if you do blank then you will receive blank)

Our system is really prohibitive. Just because other nations do it, doesn't mean it's right.
Do they? Don’t shoplifters and illegals want something for nothing? Don’t both groups ignore our laws? I fail to see the difference.
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Old 05-04-2009, 06:52 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,171 posts, read 18,569,444 times
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Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
What? That's makes no sense and isn't really relevant...so...again what are you trying to say?
Your historical comparisons are invalid. I was merely reducing it to the ridiculous.
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Old 05-04-2009, 06:55 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,909,393 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Do they? Don’t shoplifters and illegals want something for nothing? Don’t both groups ignore our laws? I fail to see the difference.
Illegals come over to better themselves, their family, and they feel like they can benefit society as a whole.

Depending on the type of shoplifter, it depends (I'm assuming you're talking about a suburban, middle class kid...so no it's not at all the same).

As far as the shoplifter that is too poor to buy milk for his/her kid and steals only milk...I feel that they should just be made to pay the milk (even in installments). They were trying to better another human being. However, it did screw somebody in the end.

Sending these people to jail would cost a lot of money. I'd rather help them and let them live and hopefully be a success than spend billions on another war of ideals.
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Old 05-04-2009, 06:56 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,909,393 times
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Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Your historical comparisons are invalid. I was merely reducing it to the ridiculous.
Actually they were quite valid, but you don't understand where I'm coming from.
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Old 05-04-2009, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,171 posts, read 18,569,444 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Because changing and adapting to a new situation is needed. Otherwise things will be either too costly for my generation (mass deporation and an infrastructure of ridiculous border safe gaurds), or again, too costly for my generation (an underclass which needs more government support than currently).
I am still waiting for you to explain “why” we should accommodate illegal aliens. The fact that they are here is not a valid justification. If my house is infested with rodents, should I allow them to remain simply because they are here; or should I call an exterminator? Before you accuse me of calling illegal aliens rodents, I am merely using this as an illustration.

Should we simply permit anyone in the world to come to this country illegally and demand amnesty? Would you be so supportive of illegal immigration if we had 20 million Africans living here?
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Old 05-04-2009, 07:05 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,171 posts, read 18,569,444 times
Reputation: 3044
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Actually they were quite valid, but you don't understand where I'm coming from.
I clearly understand where you’re coming from. I simply disagree. We are a sovereign nation, and it is our prerogative to enact laws and deny entry to whomever we choose.

You still haven’t explained why you feel foreigners have a right to illegally enter our country and demand legalization.
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Old 05-04-2009, 07:10 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,909,393 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I am still waiting for you to explain “why” we should accommodate illegal aliens. The fact that they are here is not a valid justification. If my house is infested with rodents, should I allow them to remain simply because they are here; or should I call an exterminator? Before you accuse me of calling illegal aliens rodents, I am merely using this as an illustration.

Should we simply permit anyone in the world to come to this country illegally and demand amnesty? Would you be so supportive of illegal immigration if we had 20 million Africans living here?
I've stated why several times....here's the cliff

Increased education for illegals enables more economic success. Helping out the poor is really more what I'm advocating. We don't help the poor in many locations because they are heavy immigrant regions. Specifically illegal. So we need to reform the system in which it will aid the poor irrespective of legality. In the long run, this will help our nations.

Deportation is too costly and will inevtablely be based on ethnicity and race. Families might get split (which is not good for society as a whole, since it will lead to a generation with split families...imagine the consequences). Plus, the infrastructure needed will not really benefit the general population. Government will grow and it will be extremely wasteful.

It all comes down to what makes sense for America. Education and giving them a shot in this nation makes more sense to me than spending money on walls, guns, and officers to deport every single illegal.
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