Multiculturalism: One American woman's story (illegally, racist, Americans, USA)
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I've been trying to say this for a year now on this forum. You've said it better than I.....there's little I can add. If I had to pick ONE SENTENCE from your brilliant post, it would be "The main problem with the massive immigration from Mexico is that it's MASSIVE".....precisely....absolutely. Mexico is a BIG country, and when TEN PERCENT of a big country goes to a single destination, that's "massive"...and it's "disruptive"....quite aside from any OTHER cultural complications that may be occurring. If ten percent of France moved to Germany.....or ten percent of Spain moved to Great Britain...that, TOO, would be "massive"....and disruptive....and, for MANY people, unsettling. It would be all the MORE disruptive if these places had widely differring standards of living.
Mexican immigration into the US....legal or 'otherwise'....massive, yes....and I'd say almost unprecedented in modern times, anywhere in the world...and CERTAINLY unprecedented in "peacetime".
SO REFRESHING, too, in the fact you managed to speak VOLUMES on the subject, objectively and intelligently, without once disparaging the Mexican people..or making reference to their 'cesspool' culture...or lapsing into racist slurs. You don't NEED to...(and neither do I), for the situation speaks for itself. It's a disruptive, upsetting situation, and it doesn't take a 'racist' to figure that out.
Can't rep you...but this is worth publication. My admiration for a post well-written.
PS...as to your final paragraph, 'what will the future bring'?..like you, I've always stressed it will bring "change"....from THIS 'system' to something different. The reason many of us are apprehensive, I think, is because there are a MASSIVE number of 'different' societies around the world that seem a lot less free; a lot less desirable; and a lots less inclusive than ours, at the present....while, for an American, there a PRECIOUS FEW places we'd want to 'emulate'. Therefore the idea of "change into something different" can be a little off-putting. GOOD change....or BAD one? That remains to be seen.
One of the best posts to ever grace this forum. Bravo indeed
Bravo! You have nailed it. Unfortunately, some have a difficult time comprehending even precise logic.
Macmeal, you have also quite eloquently conveyed this message on numerous occasions. Sadly, both of you will fall on deaf ears; but thanks for your exceptional efforts.
Thanks....and is this 'Carbonni' guy a silver-tongued devil, or what? Hope he keeps it up...
Mexico isn't exactly Afghanistan or old Sicily. It is doesn't have an honor culture or complex codes of conduct to the extent of either of those places, there is no Mexican version of vendetta or Pashtunwali. But there is a stronger macho vein in Mexican culture than American culture.
The main problem with the massive immigration from Mexico (especially the illegal immigration) is that it's massive. Like I said before, Mexico isn't Afghanistan and it is not like Mexicans are going to be engaging in honor killings or decades long blood feuds between rival families. However, it doesn't mean that there aren't some pretty significant differences between American and Mexican culture. You have millions of Mexican immigrants in the US and most of them are settling in just a few areas and in those areas they mostly settle in areas that are almost completely dominated by Mexican immigrants and second generation Mexican Americans. The majority of Mexican immigrants are from the poorer states of Mexico and many of the immigrants have little education. That alone makes them generally more likely to suffer from a wide variety of social problems. In America most people will earn roughly the same amount of money as their parnets, many Mexican immigrants (especially illegals) hug the poverty line and many of their children will see only a small increase in their standard of living and education. A lot of Mexican immigrants don't seem to want to become Americans either, I don't mean they are reluctant to give up their heritage, I mean that many seem downright hostile towards the idea of any form assimilation into mainstream society and view themselves as opposed to American culture rather than a part of it.
There are going to be millions of American citizens born into poverty or borderline poverty in barrios with a strong gang culture to parents that are wary of their children adopting American ways and customs. We have already seen it in much of the Southwest. The children don't see themselves as Americans, yet when they end up visiting family in Mexico, they are often mocked for their accents and their bastardized Spanish.
Will it all work out in the end? In 50 years will people look back and ask what everyone was so worried about? I don't know. I honestly don't know if the current mass immigration is a good thing or if it is a bad thing, but it is certainly an important thing. The demographics of the US are changing and if history shows anything is that a change in demographics results in drastic change which can be either good or bad. It's something worthy of discussion beyond "Damn Mexicans" or "Immigration is always great".
Stronger Macho culture? No. Again it depends on the group of people that you are talking about. Money and power influences things a lot. American Bikers (typically lower on the socio-economic scale) are more "macho" than a typical middle class Mexican family. Machismo depends on, again, more external factors. Treating culture as if it is an intrinsic attibute is downright wrong. It discounts the ability of people to morph, and also does not acknowledge the differences/inequalities of wealth and power.
Yes, the immigration from Mexico is massive. With that said, so were previous immigration waves. Relative to the percentage of the population, the Irish immigration was slightly LARGER. The same for the German immigrants. Many of the same arguments arose during time (lack of asimiliation, lack of a "refined" culture, poverty). However, our nation survived. Much of due to workers reform, reform in civil rights, reform in education policies...that not only benefitted immigrants, but "Anglo" Americans as well.
We are facing a problem in which greed has all but ruined our nation. The economic situation was made by consumers, bankers, politicians...and now is the perfect time to take stock and reevaluate what is important for our nation. In order to alleviate poverty along the border, why not provide incentive pay for teachers to stay in schools there (currently having the highest turnover rate for teachers). Why not provide more IB/AP classes to challenge the students (studies show that one of the major complaints of low performing schools is that there are no challenging courses and that there are no resources to help them in these courses.) These students feel discounted and essentially left out of the fray. Income disparity is partly socially constructed. Typically a person will roughly be in the same class as their parents. Social mobility is a thing of the past, however it does have to be. Why not have more outreach programs for universities towards low income students? Cheaper tuition for all. Maybe this might help in assimilation, since studies show that immigrants with higher education levels feel more integrated in society.
There are millions of Americans in poverty. They don't feel assimilated into American society as well. Typically the sentiment is that they feel as outsiders in their country. In a time where "The OC" and "The Hills" dictate what reality is, these people feel as if they are not apart of what society is. The truth of the matter is, social and economic inequality inhibits one ability to integrate into mainstream society.
If we institute programs that help our nations poor, I guarantee you a more integrated society.
Mexicans do wish to be American, without losing their identity. The interesting thing about this immigration wave is that, well, many were already in the SW before it became apart of America. We share a border and a common culture. Cowboys of the SW. As time progresses, we need to remember that people are culturally and socially shaped by environment, not anything intrinsic.
Yes, the immigration from Mexico is massive. With that said, so were previous immigration waves. Relative to the percentage of the population, the Irish immigration was slightly LARGER. The same for the German immigrants. Many of the same arguments arose during time (lack of asimiliation, lack of a "refined" culture, poverty). However, our nation survived. Much of due to workers reform, reform in civil rights, reform in education policies...that not only benefitted immigrants, but "Anglo" Americans as well.
If we institute programs that help our nations poor, I guarantee you a more integrated society.
.
Great...so let's take these millions of Mexican illegals, and treat 'em like we did the Irish....we'll move them into ghettos, make fun of them, and write cartoons about them, and make jokes about their 'silly, foreign culture'. Meanwhile, from their festering, overcrowded tenements, those who survive the cholera and typhoid epidemics will be free to fan out across the country to make their living among the millions of unskilled, illiterate 'grunts' who currently labor in our steel mills, or our coal mines, or who dig our canals, or lay our railroad track. Surely there MUST be plenty of 'positions' available for an enterprising illegal in those vibrant 'fields'? At any rate, one would HOPE so, because, when we're treating them "like The Irish", of course, that means virtually NO social services..'sink or swim', just like in 1870..right?
Should work fine, I'd think. The illegals can 'make their fortune', by providing us the multiple millions of 'bodies' we need to operate our industries. And we'll benefit, too, because we'll be able to 'haze the newbies', tease them, mock them, and FORCE them into assimilating into American culture..just like we did to The Irish....and the Italians, Poles, Chinese, and Greeks back in "those days".
That's what we did with the Irish and the Italians, isn't it? And didn't they all turn out just 'fine'?
Great...so let's take these millions of Mexican illegals, and treat 'em like we did the Irish....we'll move them into ghettos, make fun of them, and write cartoons about them, and make jokes about their 'silly, foreign culture'. Meanwhile, from their festering, overcrowded tenements, those who survive the cholera and typhoid epidemics will be free to fan out across the country to make their living among the millions of unskilled, illiterate 'grunts' who currently labor in our steel mills, or our coal mines, or who dig our canals, or lay our railroad track. Surely there MUST be plenty of 'positions' available for an enterprising illegal in those vibrant 'fields'? At any rate, one would HOPE so, because, when we're treating them "like The Irish", of course, that means virtually NO social services..'sink or swim', just like in 1870..right?
Should work fine, I'd think. The illegals can 'make their fortune', by providing us the multiple millions of 'bodies' we need to operate our industries. And we'll benefit, too, because we'll be able to 'haze the newbies', tease them, mock them, and FORCE them into assimilating into American culture..just like we did to The Irish....and the Italians, Poles, Chinese, and Greeks back in "those days".
That's what we did with the Irish and the Italians, isn't it? And didn't they all turn out just 'fine'?
Sounds like a 'win-win' to me, for sure.....
Read the second part...the workers movement occurred during the time of immigration, so did the push towards public schooling, and also the push to reduce children in factories. These social movements also helped the immigrants the America as well as native born Americans.
A push towards parity of education and health will further aid Mexicans, as well as native born Americans.
Stronger Macho culture? No. Again it depends on the group of people that you are talking about. Money and power influences things a lot. American Bikers (typically lower on the socio-economic scale) are more "macho" than a typical middle class Mexican family. Machismo depends on, again, more external factors. Treating culture as if it is an intrinsic attibute is downright wrong. It discounts the ability of people to morph, and also does not acknowledge the differences/inequalities of wealth and power.
Yes, the immigration from Mexico is massive. With that said, so were previous immigration waves. Relative to the percentage of the population, the Irish immigration was slightly LARGER. The same for the German immigrants. Many of the same arguments arose during time (lack of asimiliation, lack of a "refined" culture, poverty). However, our nation survived. Much of due to workers reform, reform in civil rights, reform in education policies...that not only benefitted immigrants, but "Anglo" Americans as well.
We are facing a problem in which greed has all but ruined our nation. The economic situation was made by consumers, bankers, politicians...and now is the perfect time to take stock and reevaluate what is important for our nation. In order to alleviate poverty along the border, why not provide incentive pay for teachers to stay in schools there (currently having the highest turnover rate for teachers). Why not provide more IB/AP classes to challenge the students (studies show that one of the major complaints of low performing schools is that there are no challenging courses and that there are no resources to help them in these courses.) These students feel discounted and essentially left out of the fray. Income disparity is partly socially constructed. Typically a person will roughly be in the same class as their parents. Social mobility is a thing of the past, however it does have to be. Why not have more outreach programs for universities towards low income students? Cheaper tuition for all. Maybe this might help in assimilation, since studies show that immigrants with higher education levels feel more integrated in society.
There are millions of Americans in poverty. They don't feel assimilated into American society as well. Typically the sentiment is that they feel as outsiders in their country. In a time where "The OC" and "The Hills" dictate what reality is, these people feel as if they are not apart of what society is. The truth of the matter is, social and economic inequality inhibits one ability to integrate into mainstream society.
If we institute programs that help our nations poor, I guarantee you a more integrated society.
Mexicans do wish to be American, without losing their identity. The interesting thing about this immigration wave is that, well, many were already in the SW before it became apart of America. We share a border and a common culture. Cowboys of the SW. As time progresses, we need to remember that people are culturally and socially shaped by environment, not anything intrinsic.
2009 - 1848 = ??? Does not compute unless the immigrants were desert tortoises which can live to almost 200 years old.
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