Is illegal immigration a crime? Are Illegal immigrants criminals? (2015, middle east, wages)
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How, we deal with the issue is of the greatest concern..
#1. Its Illegal to hire someone not here legally..
a. if there are NO JOBS for illegals they will leave on their own..
Yes the following 6 issues are already illegal in every country I am aware of. ISSUE IS.. Here Employers are NOT Held accountable.. ICE sweep picks up 50 illegals and the Crooked Employer's replace them in a week..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asgardian
To simplify things:
- Entering any country without proper paper = illegal - Overstaying your visa = Illegal - Entering the country with false premises = illegal - Working while not having a work visa = illegal - Buying a stolen SS# = illegal - Using stolen SS to look for benefits/privileges = illegal
How to treat people breaking this law:
- With fairness and humanity
How to deter people from staying here illegally:
- Fool proof SS verification system. Prove who you are (birth certificate request directly from town claimed by person, if naturalized or green card, check directly with USCIS, they would have a record and picture)
- Strong employment verification system. Look for previous I-9 inquiries, Previous employment history W-2 or 1099, paystubs
- Very high fines to employers who employ illegals - granted some illegals might still fall through the crack but to be proven.
What should the Govt do:
- Be more proactive in making better verification systems
- Install a culture of no tolerance for illegal immigration practices by beefing up Border patrols and training Law enforcement (proper training so that no malpractices are done to the illegals)
- Verify existing benefit systems to check for fraudulent activities (who knows that might also bring out citizens that are playing the system)
- the Govt should make sure that people are treated in a nice way while performing these roles. We do not send illegals in our jails, we send them back. The financial burden should not be on our law abiding legal tax payers.
Some illegals come here for a better future and that is understandable but we also are in financial trouble and our people come first. The US of A helps many countries but when you're broke, you got to tell other people that you can't help them because you're also broke. We have laws that should never be allowed to be broken (what example are we giving if we allow these to be broken and do nothing about it?).
We should stop demonizing people and call them bigots (I'm sure some are but the majority are not) when people are against illegal immigration. Take example how Israel deals with their border. We are still very humane compared to how Mexico treats people on their southern border.
We are in a world that is becoming dangerous to the American people. The bad guys out there want to harm us and we really do not have a clue who is entering the country. So the govt ether take strict measures or it's all on them. I have heard too many times in the past years how when something bad happen, we knew but did nothing about it. The system is broken, FIX IT !!!!!!!!!
A country has an obligation to keep it's citizen safe and in doing so sometimes has to take drastic steps to get there. We must be careful as not to disrespect people's religion, ethnic backgrounds and race while doing so. The intention is to protect the land.
Stop the PC policing and FIX the darn system before we go broke and/or something bad happens. It all starts by protecting your immigration rules.
The left wing wants everyone in despite saying they want good immigration reform..the right wing is on the extreme opposite side. We have to be humane and realistic about what it will take to solve this bearing in mind that families with children are going to be involved but also bearing in mind that we have an ever growing threat out there that wants us dead.
Secure the borders, invest in your border patrol, train your police officers effectively and most of all, respect all life.
How, we deal with the issue is of the greatest concern..
#1. Its Illegal to hire someone not here legally..
a. if there are NO JOBS for illegals they will leave on their own..
Rather than just cracking down on employers, we should use a multi-pronged approach:
crack down on employers
require health care providers to check citizenship and call ICE on illegals
require schools to check citizenship of parents and call ICE on illegals
But this is all missing the point, though. We aren't at a point yet where we need to discuss the logistics of stopping illegal immigration, because our political class is still firmly committed to allowing massive illegal immigration. We literally had the President suing states for handing him illegals to be deported. Once we get committed to stopping it, the solutions will come very easily.
Rather than just cracking down on employers, we should use a multi-pronged approach:
crack down on employers
require health care providers to check citizenship and call ICE on illegals
require schools to check citizenship of parents and call ICE on illegals
But this is all missing the point, though. We aren't at a point yet where we need to discuss the logistics of stopping illegal immigration, because our political class is still firmly committed to allowing massive illegal immigration. We literally had the President suing states for handing him illegals to be deported. Once we get committed to stopping it, the solutions will come very easily.
Add to that to remove all illegals from Section 8 housing. The anchor baby gets them in and this is wrong. If they want to live with their anchor, not in housing meant for low income citizen families. That is why it is important to do something about the anchor baby explosion went wild. They try to use the anchors food stamp benefits to feed the family and then constantly, every agency here is collecting food for the "poor". I had a older gentleman up the street say they came to his door collecting food and he can barely afford to feed himself! I don't doubt it. I quit giving to the food drives because I don't support illegal activities. I am SO tired of it.
I keep hearing the term criminal being equated to the term illegal alien, but the term criminal is reserved for people who has broken a criminal law.
Now, illegal immigration is a Civil matter, which means it's ruled by Civil Law not Criminal Law. Immigration cases are heard in front of an administrative law judge for the BCIS not a criminal judge.
So, yes, an illegal alien has broken a law, but a civil one, not a criminal law therefore is not a criminal per se.
Now, I asked on the spot one of my friends who is law school student (via text) and she told me that one could argue that the illegal alien is actually a victim of the U.S. system because by categorizing illegal immigration as civil matter the individual is actually denied the protections of process that are exclusively given to people in the criminal justice system.
Now if you do not agree with my definition of the word criminal to be limited to "Criminal Law" then you trivialize the word and anyone, including people who got a parking ticket, or at any time got an speeding ticket would be a criminal.
The only source that I could find regarding illegal immigration could be considered criminal is U.S. Code, Title 8, Section 1325 Improper entry by an alien. But it's scope is limited and if it applies, it only applies to:
"Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, ..."
Also, now thanks to the decision by the Supreme Court stating that (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/05/us/05immig.html) "federal identity-theft law may not be used against many illegal workers who used false Social Security numbers to get jobs." even further reduces the amount of illegal aliens who are accurately called criminals.
I have no formal law training, but I would definitely like to see the lawyers that are members of this forum or any other person who knows the law leave a more informed opinion on the matter.
Please if I have missed it at any point for the purpose of this post, define illegal immigrant as equivalent to illegal alien for any of my writing, I tried to change as much as I saw needed. Thanks Bostonian123
-Kellem
ok, you are nit picking now: If someone enters our country, just like our homes illegally they are breaking the law. Is an illegal the same as a hardened criminal? No, but they are still in the country without permission and the government has every right to force them to return to their native country, plus not give them any government assistance while they are here. Will this happen in the near future? Probably not, unfortunately.
How, we deal with the issue is of the greatest concern..
#1. Its Illegal to hire someone not here legally..
a. if there are NO JOBS for illegals they will leave on their own..
Yes the following 6 issues are already illegal in every country I am aware of. ISSUE IS.. Here Employers are NOT Held accountable.. ICE sweep picks up 50 illegals and the Crooked Employer's replace them in a week..
That's why we need e-verify mandated. That will cut back on the employer's illegal hiring practices and a sign that says "we use e-verify" will deter illegal aliens from applying for a job.
To simplify things:
- Entering any country without proper paper = illegal
- Overstaying your visa = Illegal
- Entering the country with false premises = illegal
- Working while not having a work visa = illegal
- Buying a stolen SS# = illegal
- Using stolen SS to look for benefits/privileges = illegal
How to treat people breaking this law:
- With fairness and humanity
How to deter people from staying here illegally:
- Fool proof SS verification system. Prove who you are (birth certificate request directly from town claimed by person, if naturalized or green card, check directly with USCIS, they would have a record and picture)
- Strong employment verification system. Look for previous I-9 inquiries, Previous employment history W-2 or 1099, paystubs
- Very high fines to employers who employ illegals - granted some illegals might still fall through the crack but to be proven.
What should the Govt do:
- Be more proactive in making better verification systems
- Install a culture of no tolerance for illegal immigration practices by beefing up Border patrols and training Law enforcement (proper training so that no malpractices are done to the illegals)
- Verify existing benefit systems to check for fraudulent activities (who knows that might also bring out citizens that are playing the system)
- the Govt should make sure that people are treated in a nice way while performing these roles. We do not send illegals in our jails, we send them back. The financial burden should not be on our law abiding legal tax payers.
Some illegals come here for a better future and that is understandable but we also are in financial trouble and our people come first. The US of A helps many countries but when you're broke, you got to tell other people that you can't help them because you're also broke. We have laws that should never be allowed to be broken (what example are we giving if we allow these to be broken and do nothing about it?).
We should stop demonizing people and call them bigots (I'm sure some are but the majority are not) when people are against illegal immigration. Take example how Israel deals with their border. We are still very humane compared to how Mexico treats people on their southern border.
We are in a world that is becoming dangerous to the American people. The bad guys out there want to harm us and we really do not have a clue who is entering the country. So the govt ether take strict measures or it's all on them. I have heard too many times in the past years how when something bad happen, we knew but did nothing about it. The system is broken, FIX IT !!!!!!!!!
A country has an obligation to keep it's citizen safe and in doing so sometimes has to take drastic steps to get there. We must be careful as not to disrespect people's religion, ethnic backgrounds and race while doing so. The intention is to protect the land.
Stop the PC policing and FIX the darn system before we go broke and/or something bad happens. It all starts by protecting your immigration rules.
The left wing wants everyone in despite saying they want good immigration reform..the right wing is on the extreme opposite side. We have to be humane and realistic about what it will take to solve this bearing in mind that families with children are going to be involved but also bearing in mind that we have an ever growing threat out there that wants us dead.
Secure the borders, invest in your border patrol, train your police officers effectively and most of all, respect all life.
Curious. What action would you take to be so-called humane and realistic about this issue while still being humane to our own citizens?
Add to that to remove all illegals from Section 8 housing. The anchor baby gets them in and this is wrong. If they want to live with their anchor, not in housing meant for low income citizen families. That is why it is important to do something about the anchor baby explosion went wild. They try to use the anchors food stamp benefits to feed the family and then constantly, every agency here is collecting food for the "poor". I had a older gentleman up the street say they came to his door collecting food and he can barely afford to feed himself! I don't doubt it. I quit giving to the food drives because I don't support illegal activities. I am SO tired of it.
I too think the best way to control the flow of illegals is to crack down on all freebies. We have 2 granddaughters who happen to work in industries that deal with welfare recipients, thus see a lot of illegals. Both girls hate what they see. And yes, the anchor baby situation doesn't help. As for donating to the poor our church has a very active food bank. We do donate, but we do not just give the food out randomly.
We need to change some laws for all your suggestions to work.. ( #!1.... Hospitals) I would have to get chapter and Versus from My two Hospital Executive Daughters... BUT there is a "thing" Hospitals sign for allowing or promising to admit anyone under blablabla circumstances and its leaves the window open for illegals.. No Money No Insurance No Problem.. come on in.. That was pushed by Reagan.. BTW! Walmart loves it.. profits thru the roof with next too zero Health Care cost on THEIR Billionaire backs...
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadtrip75
Rather than just cracking down on employers, we should use a multi-pronged approach:
crack down on employers
require health care providers to check citizenship and call ICE on illegals
require schools to check citizenship of parents and call ICE on illegals
But this is all missing the point, though. We aren't at a point yet where we need to discuss the logistics of stopping illegal immigration, because our political class is still firmly committed to allowing massive illegal immigration. We literally had the President suing states for handing him illegals to be deported. Once we get committed to stopping it, the solutions will come very easily.
We need to for all your suggestions to work.. ( #!1.... Hospitals) I would have to get chapter and Versus from My two Hospital Executive Daughters... BUT there is a "thing" Hospitals sign for allowing or promising to admit anyone under blablabla circumstances and its leaves the window open for illegals.. No Money No Insurance No Problem.. come on in.. That was pushed by Reagan.. BTW! Walmart loves it.. profits thru the roof with next too zero Health Care cost on THEIR Billionaire backs...
What the heck do you mean, Reagan pushed it through? I know, factually and I will not go into detail, but all Reagan did was sign the bill, allowing the illegals here amnesty. And this was done mainly to protect those who have come here from El Salvador. if any President was opposed to government assistance it was Reagan. As for Walmart, you might want to explain that one as well?
Now, as for your view on the hospital problems and allowing almost anyone to be treated, that you have correct. This is one of the frustrations my two granddaughters deal with. Or I should say one of them. The other one, for the time being is a stay at home mom. She dealt with it prior to deciding to stay at home and raise her 2 little ones.
Please do give the details about how you have proof that Reagan only allowed for El Salvadorians to enter the USA legally because I call BS! Ronnie Raygun had previously been Governor of California.. California has very possibly always had the highest numbers of Illegal Mexicans in the USA .. So are you saying he purposely looked past the Mexican Illegal Immigration issue in California and the USA as a whole ? If so for what purposes.. Was he just that out of touch or was he in fact in Agreement with Corporate America that they needed to pay less in Taxes and less in wages to workers in order to increase profits and there by wages for the 1% .. Reagan was ONLY Opposed to Federal meddling/Involvement when it helped working class Americans.. The Walmart statement????? Really? You dont understand how the requirement for Hospitals to except any patient regardless of ability to pay helped Scum-mart/Antio America Everything they sell is Made in China?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita
What the heck do you mean, Reagan pushed it through? I know, factually and I will not go into detail, but all Reagan did was sign the bill, allowing the illegals here amnesty. And this was done mainly to protect those who have come here from El Salvador. if any President was opposed to government assistance it was Reagan. As for Walmart, you might want to explain that one as well?
Now, as for your view on the hospital problems and allowing almost anyone to be treated, that you have correct. This is one of the frustrations my two granddaughters deal with. Or I should say one of them. The other one, for the time being is a stay at home mom. She dealt with it prior to deciding to stay at home and raise her 2 little ones.
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