Chicago Fed Thinks It Knows How To Tax Illinoisans Fleeing Pension Liabilities (Milton: balloon payment, bankrupt)

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by Liledgy

If the unions are so strong, why can’t that get the deal that “right to work indiana” gives its state employees? They don’t even contribute to their pension, plus the state contributes to social security. Maybe it’s not a union thing!

A "strong union" that is made of people that are easily led / distracted is great for politicians who can say "vote for me / my pals or the 'bad guys' will cut your benefits". Take a look at who is protected by AFSCME and what sorts of pay they receive -- https://www.illinoispolicy.org/repor...ing-agreement/ . These are hardly folks who are struggling with low wages...

Why would they even care about "the state" padding their compensation even more with easily broken promises of 'pension contributions' when the Illinois has routinely SKIPPED making the already modest payments that would be needed to keep the system solvent for DECADES. It simply makes much more sense for the Union to make sure that high current wages are paid -- that is real money its members rake in!

I actually feel sort of bad for honest workers in the traditional trade unions who have a big slice of their earnings from every paycheck funneled to their pension fund -- the payout they'll get is 100% dependent on the sum that comes from their wages and the rate that the employers agree to, not the "magically delicious" leprechaun charms that politicians in Springpatch let the Courts say are "guaranteed" with no contributions...
Mod cut.

[Liledgy]

Originally Posted by chet everett

A "strong union" that is made of people that are easily led / distracted is great for politicians who can say "vote for me / my pals or the 'bad guys' will cut your benefits". Take a look at who is protected by AFSCME and what sorts of pay they receive -- https://www.illinoispolicy.org/repor...ing-agreement/ . These are hardly folks who are struggling with low wages...

Why would they even care about "the state" padding their compensation even more with easily broken promises of 'pension contributions' when the Illinois has routinely SKIPPED making the already modest payments that would be needed to keep the system solvent for DECADES. It simply makes much more sense for the Union to make sure that high current wages are paid -- that is real money its members rake in!

I actually feel sort of bad for honest workers in the traditional trade unions who have a big slice of their earnings from every paycheck funneled to their pension fund -- the payout they'll get is 100% dependent on the sum that comes from their wages and the rate that the employers agree to, not the "magically delicious" leprechaun charms that politicians in Springpatch let the Courts say are "guaranteed" with no contributions...

Typical response, evade answering the question with more bashing.

[MSchemist80]

Originally Posted by chet everett

I actually feel sort of bad for honest workers in the traditional trade unions who have a big slice of their earnings from every paycheck funneled to their pension fund -- the payout they'll get is 100% dependent on the sum that comes from their wages

I feel bad for the citizens of Illinois not on the govt payroll like myself who have to struggle to save to fund their 401k's and IRA's only to have Democrats come and take larger and larger chunks of their paychecks to pay for the lavish pensions of govt workers. Way to help the middle class Dems!

[Maintainschaos]

I feel bad for the lion's share of government workers in Illinois who aren't raking in lavish pensions but are demonized by citizens of the state who think otherwise thanks to some skewed statistics from some right-wing nutrag like the Illinois Policy Institute.

"Just 4 percent of all beneficiaries this year are in line for pension paydays exceeding $100,000, with the biggest checks largely going to former school administrators as well as doctors and dentists at public teaching hospitals. Payments for the overwhelming majority of pensioners, most of whom don’t qualify for Social Security, are far more modest.

The median pension in 2017 for retired suburban and downstate teachers stands at $52,016, the analysis shows, while the median for general state workers is $28,946. For university workers, the median pension stands at $26,101, while for non-public safety municipal workers outside of Chicago, it is $9,064."

http://www.sj-r.com/news/20170527/bi...g-pension-mess

[dtcbnd03]

You make a good point Maintainschaos and that's a great article. I do feel somewhat bad for the avg. public employee...but then I remember that these same employees have voted for the same politicians over and over as their pension funding dwindles. So they've kinda made their own bed. It's been no secret for decades that Illinois pensions have been grossly underfunded and budgets have been outta whack but yet there's Madigan leading the charge year after year....they could all easily stand up and demand a 401k which is the only permanent solution.

[Bitey]

Originally Posted by Maintainschaos

I feel bad for the lion's share of government workers in Illinois who aren't raking in lavish pensions but are demonized by citizens of the state who think otherwise thanks to some skewed statistics from some right-wing nutrag like the Illinois Policy Institute.

"Just 4 percent of all beneficiaries this year are in line for pension paydays exceeding $100,000, with the biggest checks largely going to former school administrators as well as doctors and dentists at public teaching hospitals. Payments for the overwhelming majority of pensioners, most of whom don’t qualify for Social Security, are far more modest.

The median pension in 2017 for retired suburban and downstate teachers stands at $52,016, the analysis shows, while the median for general state workers is $28,946. For university workers, the median pension stands at $26,101, while for non-public safety municipal workers outside of Chicago, it is $9,064."

Big retirement payouts tiny part of big pension mess - News - The State Journal-Register - Springfield, IL

These numbers don't mean anything without context such as 1) What are the average number of years of service for each of these figures; 2) how many recipients; 3) Don't forget the guaranteed minimum 3% annual COL increases even when that out-paces inflation; 4) Do these figures include promised health care costs; and 5) What is the actuarial value of all promised benefits versus employee contributions?

[Liledgy]

Originally Posted by dtcbnd03

You make a good point Maintainschaos and that's a great article. I do feel somewhat bad for the avg. public employee...but then I remember that these same employees have voted for the same politicians over and over as their pension funding dwindles. So they've kinda made their own bed. It's been no secret for decades that Illinois pensions have been grossly underfunded and budgets have been outta whack but yet there's Madigan leading the charge year after year....they could all easily stand up and demand a 401k which is the only permanent solution.

It’s not a solution if they don’t fund it, just like a pension, social security, etc.

[Liledgy]

Originally Posted by MSchemist80

I feel bad for the citizens of Illinois not on the govt payroll like myself who have to struggle to save to fund their 401k's and IRA's only to have Democrats come and take larger and larger chunks of their paychecks to pay for the lavish pensions of govt workers. Way to help the middle class Dems!

And your employer is paying a higher percentage into your retirement than the states share of 8.2% for teachers. .

[Maintainschaos]

Originally Posted by Bitey

These numbers don't mean anything without context such as 1) What are the average number of years of service for each of these figures; 2) how many recipients; 3) Don't forget the guaranteed minimum 3% annual COL increases even when that out-paces inflation; 4) Do these figures include promised health care costs; and 5) What is the actuarial value of all promised benefits versus employee contributions?

Many of these you can find directly from the BGA analysis.

[MSchemist80]

Originally Posted by Liledgy

And your employer is paying a higher percentage into your retirement than the states share of 8.2% for teachers. .

At least they are paying it. Also the percentage doesn't matter. They pension funds are guarantying COL increases and an unrealistic rates of return not to mention all the hi-jinks involved in calculating the salary basis. I was manager for 1 day before I retired therefore my pension is based on my manager's salary.