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Anyone here live in the area? Are these pickup trucks common sights on the streets? I imagine that they'd be pretty frequent sightings since the metropolitan area isn't all that large and the shipments going out for the test drive are all over the map.
Manufacturers don't test drive vehicles before they are shipped out. All the testing is done in the factory utilizing dynamometers and other computer controlled machines.
There is no way that most of the employees working there can afford the R1T or the SUV, salaries in the shop are between $20 and $24 an hour. It will be interesting to see if they produce 25,000 vehicles this year, I do know some people working there and they are making them work some crazy hours, 12 hour days, sometimes weekends, not sure if that is still in effect (it was during their initial launch phase) but if they want to hit their targets in 2022, they may have to.
Also, being a start up, I've been told that there is a lot of confusion there, sometimes no one is making decisions, sometimes you get conflicting demands, so they are still working things out. Most employees working there have only been there for 2 years, or less.
Oh, definitely am not saying the average or anything approaching "most" of the employees working ther can afford such. I do know there are at least a few positions that were available at the Normal location that paid a *lot* more than what you're stating, but I am no under no impression that it was what most of the employees were paid. I also know they have pretty hefty employee discounts which would make these vehicles fairly affordable for some of the higher payscales I've seen for jobs there. They also supposedly prioritized a lot of deliveries to employees who had to sign NDAs governing some of what they're allowed to say as part of "eating their own dog food" before putting it into too many non-employee or investor hands.
How close to or in Normal do you live? I think I've seen a lot of sightings from people living *in* Normal itself on the Rivian forums, but I don't know the local geography very well so I don't know what someone means when they say they live close to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by karlsch
Manufacturers don't test drive vehicles before they are shipped out. All the testing is done in the factory utilizing dynamometers and other computer controlled machines.
I meant specifically the way Rivian seems to have vehicles they specifically send out for test drives that criss cross the country and conduct test drive events in Normal. That seems to be how they do things and I'm guessing they have to come out of the factory and that they sometimes need to come back for a look.
Some highlights that during the pandemic when Rivian was eligible to receive a $1 million from the city that was part of the agreed upon incentives package for when Rivian invests $20 million into the plant, the company waived it as a good will gesture.
The original stated maximum workforce size was 1,100--instead, there is currently 5,200 people employed at the plant which even beats out the 3,000 maximum at the peak of its Mitsubishi operations.
Illinois State University, also in Normal, is opening up a College of Engineering in 2025 while the area community college, Heartland Community College, has an associates degree program in EV technology with instructors and a pipeline from Rivian.
There have also been talk of other companies in similar or allied industries inquiring into setting up shop in the area.
The original stated maximum workforce size was 1,100--instead, there is currently 5,200 people employed at the plant which even beats out the 3,000 maximum at the peak of its Mitsubishi operations.
That's good, but also concerning. 5200 is lot of salaries to pay for a company that's generating comparatively little revenue at the moment. At it's peak, DSM was cranking out nearly 20k units a month. Rivan's doing something like 2-3k? I know they have a lot of corporate level staff in that head-count, and that their revenue-per-unit is considerably higher than Diamondstar's, but that's still a pretty low productivity-per-employee. At some point, they'll be face-to-face with the thread-the-needle moment that Tesla faced as they were ramping up model 3 production in 2018 where the survival of the company depends on getting output up.
Great to see the positive impact on Normal! Also cool to see competition for Tesla like Rivian, Ford, Kia and Hyundai. Scaling up will be the most difficult part for Rivian...and given the tight capital market will be interesting to see if they can keep raising funding to reach that scale.
That's good, but also concerning. 5200 is lot of salaries to pay for a company that's generating comparatively little revenue at the moment. At it's peak, DSM was cranking out nearly 20k units a month. Rivan's doing something like 2-3k? I know they have a lot of corporate level staff in that head-count, and that their revenue-per-unit is considerably higher than Diamondstar's, but that's still a pretty low productivity-per-employee. At some point, they'll be face-to-face with the thread-the-needle moment that Tesla faced as they were ramping up model 3 production in 2018 where the survival of the company depends on getting output up.
I'd say there are some important differences to consider. Mitsubishi usually had its vehicles and manufacturing down tight in Toyota and then essentially had these builds replicated in Normal. They did little tinkering with the vehicles and the process of building those vehicles in Normal. Rivian on the other hand has its only factory at the moment in Normal and thus needs to do iterative improvements on the vehicles and processes at the one factory they have. Rivian's vehicles are also generally on a much higher end of the market segment than Mitsubishi's are and potentially more complicated "premium" subsystems that they need more personnel to deal with such.
Rivian has a lot of cash on hand, something like $17 billion cash on hand and are steadily ramping up production. They have a lot of reservations, which can be canceled, but aren't likely to do so given the stellar reviews that the vehicles have gotten and they have a firm order of 100K orders for their delivery van from Amazon. Overall, I think they're in a much better place than Tesla was with the Model 3 ramp up though I think at this price point and with these being the first production vehicles, I'd liken it more to Tesla with the Model S and Model X, and then an extra on top with the delivery vans.
I do wish they'd move their HQ to Chicago though instead of Irvine, CA. There's a lot of engineering talent in Chicago and in the surrounding areas and it's closer to their Plymouth, Michigan office and their Normal plant. They'd be a real big fish there.
I'd say there are some important differences to consider. Mitsubishi usually had its vehicles and manufacturing down tight in Toyota and then essentially had these builds replicated in Normal. They did little tinkering with the vehicles and the process of building those vehicles in Normal. Rivian on the other hand has its only factory at the moment in Normal and thus needs to do iterative improvements on the vehicles and processes at the one factory they have. Rivian's vehicles are also generally on a much higher end of the market segment than Mitsubishi's are and potentially more complicated "premium" subsystems that they need more personnel to deal with such.
Rivian has a lot of cash on hand, something like $17 billion cash on hand and are steadily ramping up production. They have a lot of reservations, which can be canceled, but aren't likely to do so given the stellar reviews that the vehicles have gotten and they have a firm order of 100K orders for their delivery van from Amazon. Overall, I think they're in a much better place than Tesla was with the Model 3 ramp up though I think at this price point and with these being the first production vehicles, I'd liken it more to Tesla with the Model S and Model X, and then an extra on top with the delivery vans.
I do wish they'd move their HQ to Chicago though instead of Irvine, CA. There's a lot of engineering talent in Chicago and in the surrounding areas and it's closer to their Plymouth, Michigan office and their Normal plant. They'd be a real big fish there.
I think you meant Japan and not Toyota. But you are right, the original DSM plant was copied from the Mitsubishi Motors plant in Okazaki, Japan. But remember that the DSM plant was churning out Chrysler vehicles and Mitsubishi vehicles on the same line at the same time. So not everything was nailed down in Japan. That arrangement continued for many years after Mitsubishi Motors bought out Chrysler's interest in the plant. A lot of the volume from the plant were Chrysler vehicles (e.g., Dodge Stratus, Chrysler Sebring, Dodge Avenger, Eagle Talon), though some shared platforms with Mitsubishi Motors vehicles.
I don't understand the allure of Socal, but the Mitsubishi Motors HQ was in Cypress, CA just a bit up the 405 from Irvine where Rivian has its HQ - until they were effectively acquired by Nissan and moved to the Nashville area.
I hope Rivian can make it work. Mitsubishi Motors had a yoke around its neck that the other Asian transplants did not have and they just could not shake it. Rivian has so far avoided that problem.
I think you meant Japan and not Toyota. But you are right, the original DSM plant was copied from the Mitsubishi Motors plant in Okazaki, Japan. But remember that the DSM plant was churning out Chrysler vehicles and Mitsubishi vehicles on the same line at the same time. So not everything was nailed down in Japan. That arrangement continued for many years after Mitsubishi Motors bought out Chrysler's interest in the plant. A lot of the volume from the plant were Chrysler vehicles (e.g., Dodge Stratus, Chrysler Sebring, Dodge Avenger, Eagle Talon), though some shared platforms with Mitsubishi Motors vehicles.
I don't understand the allure of Socal, but the Mitsubishi Motors HQ was in Cypress, CA just a bit up the 405 from Irvine where Rivian has its HQ - until they were effectively acquired by Nissan and moved to the Nashville area.
I hope Rivian can make it work. Mitsubishi Motors had a yoke around its neck that the other Asian transplants did not have and they just could not shake it. Rivian has so far avoided that problem.
Yep, I meant Japan--brain farted!
Many of the major Japanese automakers were originally US HQ'd in southern California and Honda still is to this day. I know that Nissan and Toyota were also both were there up until fairly recently. My guess is this had to do with the proximity to Japan, the major port, and the large existing Japanese immigrant population.
I'm also hoping that Rivian can make it work. It's wild that its first model, the R1T, ever released is garnering such rave reviews. Reviews of the R1S are also now coming out and they're similarly glowing.
At some point, they'll be face-to-face with the thread-the-needle moment that Tesla faced as they were ramping up model 3 production in 2018 where the survival of the company depends on getting output up.
Rivian is still on the tightrope, having lost over $1.7 billion in the most recent quarter. While production is forecast to double to 50k units in 2023, they're still a LONG way from having the necessary revenue to sustain themselves.
Rivian is still on the tightrope, having lost over $1.7 billion in the most recent quarter. While production is forecast to double to 50k units in 2023, they're still a LONG way from having the necessary revenue to sustain themselves.
Yea, it's a long way from what's necessary, but they do have a lot of cash on hand that can last for a while even with their current burn rate and they do have three vehicles in production now and presumably just started a second production shift. They didn't hit their revenue targets this quarter by a bit, but they also had a lower than expected loss. That Amazon order of 100,000 units has only had about 1% of it chipped off, so that's a pretty good safety net. I do wonder what would happen if the Atlanta deal falls through--would that then mean increasing their footprint in Normal as they again look for a second site?
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