What do you think about Right to Work? (buying, utilities)

[WyoNewk]

I don't know what it would do to Indiana, but I'm in the coal rich part of Wyoming where UMWA tried to get a foothold years ago but failed. Few if any of the mines have any unions today because the workers don't want them. My son is a miner -- an equipment operator. I don't know his income, but he was able to buy a 3500 sq ft home on the golf course a couple years ago -- roughly $400K -- as a single parent of two. He has excellent job benefits, takes at least three vacations each year to exotic locations and lives very well.

It's entirely possible that part of the reason the mines pay so well is because they don't want unions, but a bigger reason is that they want the best, most reliable employees operating those multi-million dollar pieces of equipment, and they don't want their workers leaving, as training isn't cheap.

I don't believe that being a right-to-work state has hurt Wyoming's workers at all. I've heard very few complaints about it by workers, and most that I've talked to about it say they'd refuse any job that required them to join a union.

[Broadrippleguy]

Originally Posted by WyoNewk

I don't know what it would do to Indiana, but I'm in the coal rich part of Wyoming where UMWA tried to get a foothold years ago but failed. Few if any of the mines have any unions today because the workers don't want them. My son is a miner -- an equipment operator. I don't know his income, but he was able to buy a 3500 sq ft home on the golf course a couple years ago -- roughly $400K -- as a single parent of two. He has excellent job benefits, takes at least three vacations each year to exotic locations and lives very well.

It's entirely possible that part of the reason the mines pay so well is because they don't want unions, but a bigger reason is that they want the best, most reliable employees operating those multi-million dollar pieces of equipment, and they don't want their workers leaving, as training isn't cheap.

I don't believe that being a right-to-work state has hurt Wyoming's workers at all. I've heard very few complaints about it by workers, and most that I've talked to about it say they'd refuse any job that required them to join a union.

Percisely.

[summer22]

Originally Posted by indy_317

One big issue with unions is that they took everything they bargained for and got most of the stuff written into the law books: 40 hour work week, child labor issues, discrimination, etc.. So now people don't see the unions as needed anymore because wage concessions were negotiated and all the other perks are actually written into various laws, so the union can't "get those" for the workers anymore.

Unfortunately, those things haven't been codified into law everywhere. I took a job in Ohio and found out that there's no lunches mandated for workers, no limit on the number of hours per day or per week either.

They've been codified into law in Illinois, California, and New York among other places. Many companies that value their reputation and their recruiting ability have adopted those policies nationwide. But for vast parts of the country, those basic things are not law and there is not really much legal protection for workers.

I grew up in Chicago and thought everyone had those basic protections that I enjoyed in my first job when I was 16. Sad to say 20 years later that's still not the case.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by WyoNewk

I don't know what it would do to Indiana, but I'm in the coal rich part of Wyoming where UMWA tried to get a foothold years ago but failed. Few if any of the mines have any unions today because the workers don't want them. My son is a miner -- an equipment operator. I don't know his income, but he was able to buy a 3500 sq ft home on the golf course a couple years ago -- roughly $400K -- as a single parent of two. He has excellent job benefits, takes at least three vacations each year to exotic locations and lives very well.

It's entirely possible that part of the reason the mines pay so well is because they don't want unions, but a bigger reason is that they want the best, most reliable employees operating those multi-million dollar pieces of equipment, and they don't want their workers leaving, as training isn't cheap.

I don't believe that being a right-to-work state has hurt Wyoming's workers at all. I've heard very few complaints about it by workers, and most that I've talked to about it say they'd refuse any job that required them to join a union.

Powder River Basin is low sulfur, shipped everywhere for generating stations- even outside of the US. We are still going to be moving away from coal as states like Iowa and Minnesota have 25-30% of electricity coming from renewables with the percentage of the pie growing each year. Coal has been a disastrous form of economic activity throughout Appalachia with the end result being large-scale poverty, displacement of people, leveling of mountains, watersheds being destroyed, and other kinds of disasters

[Broadrippleguy]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

Powder River Basin is low sulfur, shipped everywhere for generating stations- even outside of the US. We are still going to be moving away from coal as states like Iowa and Minnesota have 25-30% of electricity coming from renewables with the percentage of the pie growing each year. Coal has been a disastrous form of economic activity throughout Appalachia with the end result being large-scale poverty, displacement of people, leveling of mountains, watersheds being destroyed, and other kinds of disasters

dont forget though that with states like californiastan and NY Illinois etc. pushing for that youll drive up the cost of energy and businesses will flee. California has the 2nd highest unemployment rate and the state is #1 in population. 5 businesses leave the state every week (Not small businesses cause they are not documented). I could keep going on but i think you get my point

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by Broadrippleguy

dont forget though that with states like californiastan and NY Illinois etc. pushing for that youll drive up the cost of energy and businesses will flee. California has the 2nd highest unemployment rate and the state is #1 in population. 5 businesses leave the state every week (Not small businesses cause they are not documented). I could keep going on but i think you get my point

That may definitely be true although a link confirming that would be nice. The key to a more sustainable energy future is a high level of diversification while dramatically moving away from coal. Indiana energy policy has been absolutely horrible for the environment with 97% of all electricity generated from coal. That causes a very high carbon output. (Make a trip down to the Ohio Valley and see the end result of that) While I am not a big promoter of nat gas, I think we could definitely transition away from coal by using more gas along with a big increase in renewables. I have a problem with fracking, and I think this is just another big coporate boom/bust strategy to pillage poor rural areas with lax regs (Marcellus Shale region of PA, mostly).

[Broadrippleguy]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

That may definitely be true although a link confirming that would be nice. The key to a more sustainable energy future is a high level of diversification while dramatically moving away from coal. Indiana energy policy has been absolutely horrible for the environment with 97% of all electricity generated from coal. That causes a very high carbon output. (Make a trip down to the Ohio Valley and see the end result of that) While I am not a big promoter of nat gas, I think we could definitely transition away from coal by using more gas along with a big increase in renewables. I have a problem with fracking, and I think this is just another big coporate boom/bust strategy to pillage poor rural areas with lax regs (Marcellus Shale region of PA, mostly).

I agree we produce so much from coal but this global warming thing is bogus and heres a simple science fact. CO2 is HEAVIER yes heavier than Air so how in the world can it just magically rise into the atmosphere? Wind currents wont do much cause the wind would rather move the air along which is lighter.

Ill also add were in a warming period between ice ages.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by Broadrippleguy

I agree we produce so much from coal but this global warming thing is bogus and heres a simple science fact. CO2 is HEAVIER yes heavier than Air so how in the world can it just magically rise into the atmosphere? Wind currents wont do much cause the wind would rather move the air along which is lighter.

Ill also add were in a warming period between ice ages.

No, carbon dioxide rises into the atmosphere. Regardless, average temperatures are increasing now compared to historical averages. Burning coal is an extremely dirty, inefficient, and 19th century way of generating electricity. All the externalized costs of coal ash waste, sulfur dioxide, mercury, and radiation are not included in the price of electricity. The big utilities only clean things up when forced to. Indiana has extremely old coal plants that are grandfathered in and the big utilities are running them into the ground until they are shuttered. They could give 2 cents about the health of the public. Gas is MUCH cleaner than coal.

[Broadrippleguy]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

No, carbon dioxide rises into the atmosphere. Regardless, average temperatures are increasing now compared to historical averages. Burning coal is an extremely dirty, inefficient, and 19th century way of generating electricity. All the externalized costs of coal ash waste, sulfur dioxide, mercury, and radiation are not included in the price of electricity. The big utilities only clean things up when forced to. Indiana has extremely old coal plants that are grandfathered in and the big utilities are running them into the ground until they are shuttered. They could give 2 cents about the health of the public. Gas is MUCH cleaner than coal.

Agreed although Indiana has had a history of throwing gas away. Natural gas was plainly wasted during the Indiana gas boom. That may be a good thing though as the Trenton Oil field in Indiana might be americas last reserve of oil when the world runs out.

[grmasterb]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

Gas is MUCH cleaner than coal.

Enjoy being extorted by the Russians when buying it. Or do you really want to discuss the merits of fracking?

Coal is cheap, plentiful and domestic. You're not going to win the argument. The focus should be on making coal plants cleaner, and the EPA has already stepped in to affect that.