What do you think about Right to Work? (Mexico: house, unemployed)

[Broadrippleguy]

Right now a commitee is discussing the Right to Work bill that prompted the Democrats walkout in the spring. What do you think of the idea?
My personal though is its a good thing cause the more businesses we attract to our state the more jobs that come with it and the less people unemployed. So more money to spend in our economy and everyone benefits. Also the state isnt robbed of unemploymend funds from so many people seeking them.

[grmasterb]

I'm not a union guy at all, but I see this issue as a bit of a red herring. If you look at many of the states with right-to-work laws, are they really better off? Yes, maybe job growth has been better and there's population growth, but the wages are also significantly lower. And, if you consider the types of industries that have migrated to right-to-work states (largely low-skill manufacturing businesses), then I think a lot of the southern states that have seen an influx of these businesses have yet to realize that they're probably nothing more than a stopping off point on the way to Mexico.

In short, a right-to-work law will not significantly improve the lot of Hoosiers. Creating a healthier, more educated and innovative workforce will.

[domergurl]

Nailed it gmasterb!!!!

[Southside Shrek]

I don't think that Indiana has to worry about sending jobs to Mexico because Mexico is already here.

[indy_317]

Originally Posted by grmasterb

If you look at many of the states with right-to-work laws, are they really better off? Yes, maybe job growth has been better and there's population growth, but the wages are also significantly lower.

When most folks hear "union" they think stronger unions like the UAW and Teamsters. It used to be that you could get a UAW factory job and while you might only make $20/hour, due to horrible management and union agreements (for things like discipline, breaks, etc), you could easily walk out with $100K at the end of the year if you were willing to work OT. This was seen as unsustainable back in the 70s, and it basically took until the 2000s to finally explode.

Even the UAW has agreed to wage cuts, to where starting pay is now around $15/hour and over-time is non-existent. Still not a horrible wage, but the era of a line worker having a nice home, $5,000 vacations every year, possibly a second home, jet skis, a boat, etc. are over.

One big issue with unions is that they took everything they bargained for and got most of the stuff written into the law books: 40 hour work week, child labor issues, discrimination, etc.. So now people don't see the unions as needed anymore because wage concessions were negotiated and all the other perks are actually written into various laws, so the union can't "get those" for the workers anymore.

I think right-to-work benefits those silly unions like the ones that bag persons at Kroger are forced to join. It is ridiculous that any job that pays less than say $12, maybe $10, could be considered a "union" job. To me, if their dues are anything over $5/month, it sounds like forced theft.

Unfortunately for unions, most became nothing more than an extension of the Democrat party. As far as I recall, they didn't do much for state employees as a whole. They just took their money, got them on the mailing list, then flooded their mailboxes with Democrat party propaganda.

Oh, we can't forget the union report on the Daily Show:
Working Stiffed - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - 09/20/10 - Video Clip | Comedy Central

Unions are nothing more than their own businesses, and they care about their personal bank account money just as much as greed CEOs and the government.

[Broadrippleguy]

Originally Posted by indy_317

When most folks hear "union" they think stronger unions like the UAW and Teamsters. It used to be that you could get a UAW factory job and while you might only make $20/hour, due to horrible management and union agreements (for things like discipline, breaks, etc), you could easily walk out with $100K at the end of the year if you were willing to work OT. This was seen as unsustainable back in the 70s, and it basically took until the 2000s to finally explode.

Even the UAW has agreed to wage cuts, to where starting pay is now around $15/hour and over-time is non-existent. Still not a horrible wage, but the era of a line worker having a nice home, $5,000 vacations every year, possibly a second home, jet skis, a boat, etc. are over.

One big issue with unions is that they took everything they bargained for and got most of the stuff written into the law books: 40 hour work week, child labor issues, discrimination, etc.. So now people don't see the unions as needed anymore because wage concessions were negotiated and all the other perks are actually written into various laws, so the union can't "get those" for the workers anymore.

I think right-to-work benefits those silly unions like the ones that bag persons at Kroger are forced to join. It is ridiculous that any job that pays less than say $12, maybe $10, could be considered a "union" job. To me, if their dues are anything over $5/month, it sounds like forced theft.

Unfortunately for unions, most became nothing more than an extension of the Democrat party. As far as I recall, they didn't do much for state employees as a whole. They just took their money, got them on the mailing list, then flooded their mailboxes with Democrat party propaganda.

Oh, we can't forget the union report on the Daily Show:
Working Stiffed - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - 09/20/10 - Video Clip | Comedy Central

Unions are nothing more than their own businesses, and they care about their personal bank account money just as much as greed CEOs and the government.

Well said no better way to say it. Great post and so true.

[domergurl]

As far as the unions becoming part of the democratic party ... You all do understand that it happened for a reason right? if the republican party gave a hoot about the working people or the middle class, you wouldn't have that situation. now does that make it right? 'm not saying that at all ... But one must see the history behind the current situation. Just being fair and balanced here ...

[indy_317]

Originally Posted by domergurl

if the republican party gave a hoot about the working people or the middle class, ... Just being fair and balanced here ...

Well, to make sure we are fair and balanced, we also need to make the same statement about the democrat party:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/30/bu...achusetts.html

Unions Peeved as Massachusetts House Votes to Limit Collective Bargaining - FoxNews.com

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...909536676.html

Kinda funny how these unions gave to people that turned around and stripped them of their power. The democrats just gave away the farm because they were able to steal enough fruits of people's labor to afford the farm. Now that there just isn't anymore money to take on the local level, the party has ended. We will see just how friendly democrats are to current and former public union workers in the near future. Socialism only works until you run out of other people's money. That time has come.

[Southside Shrek]

In their glory days unions were great. I chuckled watching a Teamsters bargaining representative chase a non-union ice cream vendor out of the neighborhood in a Chicago suburb.

[richb]

If Indiana had right to work, there would be companies that would look at coming to the state. Until that happens they won't. Its as simple as that. They won't look at non right to work states, period. There are hundreds of companies that don't look at the Midwest region AT ALL due to it.

Plus having right to work makes the unions work for the employees. When they don't have to sell themselves to each person (closed shop) you get what you have today, unions that are mostly useless to the employees. And that is the reason for them to exist, not as funnels of cash to Democrat politicians as they are now. No one should have to pay a union to have a job. If they aren't providing the service they are supposed to be doing, the employees should have the RIGHT to not be in the union and to pay the dues. Union membership should be voluntary.

Also its not just low wage employers that avoid closed shop states, its almost all employers. A closed shop state is a strike against a state's business friendly environment. Saying oh well to low wage jobs is shooting themselves in the foot, people need starter jobs, if you don't have them, you have large groups of people who can't get on the jobs ladder.

Indiana should blaze the trail in the midwest for this important reform.