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I wouldn't be so glum about the chances of your neighborhood revitalizing. Just because the homes are small doesn't mean they won't find a buyer. If your neighborhood is reasonably compact and walkable--and, if it's where I think you're suggesting it's located, then it IS pretty compact and walkable--chances are some people will find charm in those small bungalows. Household sizes are getting smaller and smaller, and more people are living alone or with one another person--many folks don't want McMansions in Carmel because they don't need the space. And if they don't have kids, the concern about IPS will diminish significantly. Those big monsters also cost a lot more to heat and cool, and energy costs are unlikely to plunge again any time soon. While there is no silver bullet to preventing a neighborhood from declining, there are a few things a homeowner can do that certainly help without taking much time: 1) continue to keep a strong neighborhood association with a crime watch; 2) attend and participate in school board meetings to find out what decisions are being made. Even if you don't have school-aged kids, what happens in school districts can make a huge impact on property values (more than anything else IMO), so it behooves you to stay engaged.
I dont see the 10th and rural area revitalizing any time near future. Not so much because its the hood (it is def the hood) but because of the housing stock, while some might like small bungelows they are not the kind people want to re model. Those houses just arent that way, especially when there are areas in the city as close to downtown with better housing stock.
I dont see the 10th and rural area revitalizing any time near future. Not so much because its the hood (it is def the hood) but because of the housing stock, while some might like small bungelows they are not the kind people want to re model. Those houses just arent that way, especially when there are areas in the city as close to downtown with better housing stock.
Neighborhoods like Chatham Arch and Lockerbie Square are filled with what would be considered "small bungalows" by the standards of today's Carmel McMansions, yet people have scrambled to remodel them and they now are worth some of the highest values per square foot in the entire metro. Broad Ripple's homes are also on the small side, yet they have retained value because the neighborhood is good.
10th and Rural is the hood absolutely, but I'm not sure the stock is bad. Neighborhoods like Little Flower (close but definitely not the Hood) or Emerson Heights have smallish homes that many families find desirable if they aren't seeking a megahouse in the 'burbs. I wouldn't rule any neighborhood out.
I do not know but stay out of the neighborhood JR Dalton owns. Haughville is for the birds J.R. wants me out yeasterday and I have no place for my dog and I to go.
I fear that in the next 20 years or so, the whole of Marion County will be overrun with thugs, crime, and the accompanying decline; the only decent people left would be those who can't afford to get out.
Yes, there's been "progress," but I've heard about, and to a small extent, experienced enough of the problems that it's hard not to begrudge some of that progress and long for the "good old days." And surely a good bit of the changes are societal and not exclusive to Indy.
My worst experiences were during the time I lived near 10th and Rural over 30 years ago, and I'm starting to see some of the same problems creeping into the area where I live now. This area is right on the verge of tipping over in the next few years. It's heartbreaking. And if we decided to move a few miles further out from downtown, say outside the 465 loop, who's to say in 10 years' time we won't be having to pick up and move again? Where does it end?
We've talked about leaving not just the eastside, but Indianapolis altogether, for years. It's been our home for a lifetime. Finances have left us feeling we're better off staying here for now and holding out hope for a slowdown of the decline. But I fear these days are numbered.
Marion County is already over run with crime. The stories are on the news at least every other day. The _only_ saving grace is that, for now, most of the home invasion, etc. type incidents are still acquaintance/friend of a friend type deals (ie: Criminals hear there are guns, drugs, money, and/or high end electronics in home). There should be no reason we have thug after thug roaming the streets of Indy. Indy needs a housing facility, that it could either give to the state, or somehow change state law to allow offenders to serve their sentence in county jails.
Progress is how one looks at it. I see rampant crime, mostly property, so far, but I know for a fact that the thugs are taking over. Our leaders have given us progress alright...they have taxed the many to the benefit of the few. A select handful of elites rule this town. They are involved in politics, law firms, real estate, construction, etc.. They rake in millions over their lives, a good chunk of which is on the backs of taxpayers.
I made the decision to never move into the confines of Marion County. The entire property tax disaster shows there has been no progress in Marion County. I don't care how rich someone is, taking someone who lives in a $400K home $11,000 A YEAR is outrageous, and criminal if you ask me. This is what Marion Co. has become, a fleecing of the taxpayers. If your not involved in certain industry, you are screwed. The property tax caps were nothing more than temporary fix to the failure of Indy, and other big government spending municipalities, to keep their spending in check. Politicians have been saying "yes" for decades, creating various boards, etc., all over the state. So the state takes over certain K-12 expenses to spread the failure and/or greed of some K-12 corporations over all 92 counties. Nice. So rich liberals vote and support all kinds of spending for their local K-12 district, then get upset when the bill arrives...typical.
I too may leave this area. The bigger the municipality, the more greed and corruption. It then starts to destroy the surrounding municipalities/areas. We have a regional tax to provide a billionaire a place to run his company. We have calls for more regional taxes to bailout the board who runs this facility. We have calls for more regional taxes to building rail transit for the few, not the many (oh, we get an extra highway lane, which of course we have to pay to use...nice).
This isn't really just an Indy problem, it is a problem of the country as a whole. All one has to do is start searching for municipal bankruptcies, police/fire cuts, pension deficits, etc. and the problem is clear. This county used to be #1, but greed took over, and now we are falling year after year.
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Originally Posted by dave.dawsn
Also consider the size and wide spectrum of population in Marion County. You mean to suggest that Geist, Meridian-Kessler, Butler-Tarkington, and Eagle Creek ar going to "be overrun with thugs, crime, and the accompanying decline?" Geist and EC are suburban areas, but they are within Marion County. MK and BT have been stable urban neighborhoods for decades.
There is nothing stable about getting robbed at gun point. This has happened in MK and BT. It is happening in Broad Ripple more and more, and the Monon Trail, especially the southern end, has been the area of many attacks recently. MK and BT would be a wasteland if they had been made to pay for WHAT THEY VOTED FOR. Instead, they get $11K a year property tax bills and go downtown and protests. So what happens, the state, which is 92 counties, take over various costs for K-12. Basically, the rest of us get to make it so these folks don't have to pay for what they want: Urban living in a politically correct, publicly corrupt, era.
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Originally Posted by dave.dawsn
I understand your point of view, and you're definitely entitled to your opinion, but I think it's exactly this kind of attitude that keeps people running to Fishers instead of giving the city a chance.
Fishers and other places is exactly where I would run to. However, unless we stop the wasteful spending, stop the political corruption, the entire metro area will be nothing more than one big Detroit metro area. My grandmother lived just S. of Irvington. Her neighborhood was going south for decades, but last year, things got worse. Twice within two months, she was "cased" or "tested". On two different occasions, people are banging on her door at 1AM wanting money and/or to "use the phone." She told them no, had the phone in her hand, told them to use the phone across the street. One girl leaves, walks away. The other girls, they cross the street, get in a car, take off. Criminals are getting more brazen, because we decided to spend a billion dollars on a football stadium for a billionaire instead of building a jail facility.
Did you see the two younger ladies who spoke with WISH-TV about being robbed at gun point just off the main strip in Broad Ripple? The lady who was raped in Fishers? The armed robbery in Fishers? The entire metro area is going to hell. If you really want to see what is going on in the city, sign up for a handful of ride-a-longs with IMPD.
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Originally Posted by chalcedony
But the City of Indy doesn't have the money for things like that since it has much higher poverty and the ensuing social concerns/crime-fighting that comes with that. It's a tough balance, but I'm not sure a lot of the folks at the top are even aware of the problem.
It isn't a "tough balance." What the City of Indy does is say "NO!" to billionaires who ask for tax income, tax breaks, etc.. All one has to do is read the Advanced Indiana blog to see the wasteful spending we have going on. The corner's office, the airport authority, the CIB, are just a few examples of how the citizens of Marion Co. are getting screwed. Too much wasteful spending to sit there and blame poor people for 100% of the mess. They are an issue, but not a huge part of it. Most of the problem is that there are thousands of political players, who want to make things happen, to get paid. Be it sidewalk building, legal services, building buildings, etc., too many folks out there look to fleece the Indy taxpayers.
The problem is that taxation in Indy is about as high as it can go. The Governor bailed out Indy already. The state took over some of the IPS expenses so MK and BT wouldn't become wastelands since most folks likely would have fled due to $6-$11K/year property taxes. Now we are seeing attacks on regional taxpayers on many fronts: Mass transit, Capital Improvement Board, and Public Safety have all be things folks say metro area residents should start paying _more_ for.
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Originally Posted by Yeppity
Interestingly, Fishers' crime rate is increasing, too, but I guess it's just a by-product of population growth.
It is a by-product of using tax income (and giving tax breaks) to a point where there is no money for jails/prisons to hold offenders. Why use taxes to house thieves and rapists when we can build a concert hall (Carmel) or a billion dollar football stadium (Indy)?
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Originally Posted by Yeppity
We are tantalizingly close to paying off our tiny little house. We are bursting at the seams in need of more space (although that would improve slightly if we got rid of some of our junk). We are of the age that getting into another mortgage is not as appealing as it was during the boom years. But now we have a young daughter to think about. Do we want her to grow up here, or not? How much more is it going to decline, and how quickly? I am extremely conflicted, but my spouse, not quite as much--if we had a giant pile of money drop down on us tomorrow, we'd be probably be outta here.
In the situation as you presented, I would suggest moving ASAP. To me, private schools only can provide so much. Either toss your money at private schools, and live in the hood, hoping your kids turn out OK, or move to the burbs where there are decent public schools. The thing is, at least in the burbs, the crime rates are still relatively low compared to 10th-Rural. If you are close to paying off your home, it sounds like you are good with your money. My suggestion, don't worry about debt when it comes to you and your kids safety/future. Seriously, just sell your home for whatever you can and move to the burbs. Even if you have to get an interest only mortgage (basically like renting, unless you start paying on principle), at least you will be in a somewhat safer neighborhood. I know there were many, many homes in the Noblesville area that were selling new in the $120s. Granted, they are vinyl villages, but at least the area isn't as bad as 10th-Rural, 3800-4200 N. Post Rd., etc.. My guess is you could find some of these newer homes in the $100s. I know for a fact you can find some homes like this in the McCordsville/Fortville area. Look for foreclosures and make a deal. The $120K homes in this area (NW Hancock Co.) are selling for around $100K in the down market.
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Originally Posted by chalcedony
And if they don't have kids, the concern about IPS will diminish significantly.
The problem here will be the exact same issue we saw with the property taxes in MK and BT. The neighborhood revitalizes, a bunch of childless home owner(s) move in, the assessor socks it too them, they get giddy because "Look how much our investment is worth!" then get smacked with a $3,000 property tax bill (only thanks too the cap). Special assessments go onto the ballot, they are the minority, their tax bill starts creeping up to the $5,000 range. Folks should understand, a $400K assessed home in IPS district should be paying $11K+ A YEAR in property taxes. This is the true representation of urban living, especially for those who live in the upscale, trendy areas.
Downtown is a great place to live, but you have to understand that you want to live very close to downtown because the immediately surrounding areas are very low income neighborhoods. I live downtown and rent in the old northside. I love the homes, they are huge and many go for $600,000. Downtown is very expensive to buy and very expensive to live in the flats and condos immediately downtown.
The next best place to live is Broadripple. The homes are a little expensive and the schools are still public, but you are very close to alternatives. Broadripple is known as being the trendy, yuppie part of town with many small restaurants, clothing stores, and other stores in the downtown of that area.
If you are looking for schools, the best school districts are on the north side, which is one of the reasons why it is way better than the south side.
Nora and surrounding areas have very nice homes with many places to go nearby.
You will see that because the city has sprawled so far out that many of the areas by 465 and further are really out there.
The next best place to live is Broadripple. The homes are a little expensive and the schools are still public, but you are very close to alternatives. Broadripple is known as being the trendy, yuppie part of town with many small restaurants, clothing stores, and other stores in the downtown of that area.
My opinion is that Broad Ripple is in danger of losing its charm. Over the last few years, brazen robberies have been committed in, or very, very close, to the village area. While there are a bunch of off-duty cops working in Broad Ripple on the weekends, most of the district cars are pulled to the ghetto areas to keep the peace. Not sure if things have changed with the merger, but I do know that there are still lots of off-duty cops who sit stationary, and don't patrol that I know of. This means that if you leave the main drag, there likely isn't much in terms of police patrol/protection.
Wow... I've been on the north side for the past 20 some years and yes it is pretty expensive, but also really pretty and many fun things to do. My parents are constantly complaining about taxes, too much traffic on our once country road, too many new houses being built around us, etc. Fishers and Carmel can get pretty expensive, but it is just where you choose to live in those areas. All neighborhoods have your higher priced areas. As for the school systems, I do not have children right now, so you would have to look up school system info from other sites!
I am moving to the Greenwood area soon (yes a north sider moving to the south side), and this is a pretty family friendly neighborhood also. So north or south side... you should find wherever you choose to live a good experience!
Ravekid, for your own health, I urge you once again to spend less time typing tirades and go visit some of these Elysian Fields that you think the rest of the US has in droves. Trust me, Indy's not bad at all--it really is one of the best-managed cities of its size in the country.
You've convinced me that Marion County is the place to be. Certainly its has far more people who can perceive the warts of city living along with its many positives.
Ravekid, for your own health, I urge you once again to spend less time typing tirades and go visit some of these Elysian Fields that you think the rest of the US has in droves. Trust me, Indy's not bad at all--it really is one of the best-managed cities of its size in the country.
Now I have heard it all. Giving tax money to billionaires is "best-managed!"
My only guess is that you are one of the handful of folks who feed from the troth that is billionaire bailouts and/or public corruption/favoritism. Only someone who has a vested, personal financial stake in bailouts and political cronyism could call this city "best-managed."
Now I have heard it all. Giving tax money to billionaires is "best-managed!"
My only guess is that you are one of the handful of folks who feed from the troth that is billionaire bailouts and/or public corruption/favoritism. Only someone who has a vested, personal financial stake in bailouts and political cronyism could call this city "best-managed."
For someone that claims to be such an expert on taxes and fiscal matters, you really don't have a clue about economics, do you?
I agree that "giving tax money to billionaires" is undesirable, but be honest about it: that's not what happened. If you want to talk about Wall Street, or big oil, or the Bush tax cuts, we can; but you and I both know Lucas Oil Stadium was not a handout. That said, I think the city made a lopsided deal with the Colts and should have negotiated more effectively. Either way, the city benefits from hosting events like Final Fours, massive concert events, the Super Bowl, etc., all of which bring in revenue.
You act as if the city just wrote a check to Jim Irsay and told him not to spend it all in one place...
Last edited by dave.dawsn; 06-08-2010 at 07:10 AM..
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