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Explicit means "stated clearly and in detail, leaving no room for confusion or doubt". If something is hidden in a 50 page document that they know almost no one will read then it is not stated clearly with no room for confusion. I don't think they even asked me explicitly to agree to terms of service but rather by using their service it is an implicit acceptance of their terms. I never signed anything with them nor do I remember checking a box in an online agreement that I accept their terms like software products make you do before installation.
Not a lawyer....
But couldn't this go both ways though...? You never signed anything (nor did they indicate) that said the equipment you're leasing will be used by you and solely by you...?
I can't speak for Spectrum, but as an Xfinity customer - there is an entire section that says their equipment is theirs and they can do whatever they want with it. I would think that would be similar to any provider that leases their equipment.
Comcast/Xfinity also makes the terms of service available. "Explicit" can be subjective. But for me, While I don't recall checking a box but I'd be shocked if I didn't do that or at least "click 'next'" to continue. And those terms of service is pretty much right there in both the App, their website/portal, any marketing email I get, and it's also on my PDF bill.
At the end of the day - it's an easy fix. Just go in an turn it off. Or, even better, use your own equipment and, overall, have more control and pay less.
Comcast/Xfinity also makes the terms of service available. "Explicit" can be subjective. But for me, While I don't recall checking a box but I'd be shocked if I didn't do that or at least "click 'next'" to continue. And those terms of service is pretty much right there in both the App, their website/portal, any marketing email I get, and it's also on my PDF bill.
At the end of the day - it's an easy fix. Just go in an turn it off. Or, even better, use your own equipment and, overall, have more control and pay less.
I didn't sign up for Spectrum online so there was nothing to read and "accept" the terms of service by checking a box. I called Spectrum for an appointment to install the service. The phone representative did not read me the terms of service or direct me to such a document online or ask me to accept a TOS. When the technician arrived he installed a cable into my home and connected the modem and router and I had internet service. I'm sure their TOS is available online if I looked for it so I consider that implied acceptance by using the service rather than explicitly taking an action like checking a box online or telling a phone rep I "accept" their terms of service.
As far as using your own equipment giving more control, could you explain that? Spectrum used Sagecom equipment for my installation which is not a proprietary Spectrum product. If I buy a Sagecom router from Amazon, what is the difference other than I own it instead of Spectrum owning it? The router would have a different password but I can change the password on the Spectrum router, plus the Spectrum mobile hotspot isn't using a password. Why would my ownership of the router give me any more control?
Why would my ownership of the router give me any more control?
When I think of controlling the router, it comes in other areas. For example I use my own mesh system to give me control over providing a strong signal to all corners of my home. I have dozens of devices that connect to it, and having the ability to name devices makes it easier to manage. If I change provider and they give me a new router, I don't have to reconfigure all my devices to get on my network. These are just examples, but for the hotspot issue it is likely a moot point.
I didn't sign up for Spectrum online so there was nothing to read and "accept" the terms of service by checking a box. I called Spectrum for an appointment to install the service. The phone representative did not read me the terms of service or direct me to such a document online or ask me to accept a TOS. When the technician arrived he installed a cable into my home and connected the modem and router and I had internet service. I'm sure their TOS is available online if I looked for it so I consider that implied acceptance by using the service rather than explicitly taking an action like checking a box online or telling a phone rep I "accept" their terms of service.
As far as using your own equipment giving more control, could you explain that? Spectrum used Sagecom equipment for my installation which is not a proprietary Spectrum product. If I buy a Sagecom router from Amazon, what is the difference other than I own it instead of Spectrum owning it? The router would have a different password but I can change the password on the Spectrum router, plus the Spectrum mobile hotspot isn't using a password. Why would my ownership of the router give me any more control?
For one - you can use whatever brand/make of router you choose, or decide to use a open source firmware like ddwrt, openwrt, tomato, etc. And you can base all these options on the capabilities that you need/want.
Certainly, if you decide to use the exact same make/model that your provide has, it's more just about saving money in the long run by buying the router. Yes - you can always change the password so you control the access to that device. But at the end of the day - you don't own that device. The downside to provisioning your own equipment is that you get to support it. And it also gives your provider's tech support an excuse to blame everything on your equipment. So the onus is often on you to troubleshoot things first....
...it's more just about saving money in the long run by buying the router.
I happen to have fiber (where of course the equipment market is far less evolved) and my all-in-one equipment is included in the monthly internet rate. No separate line item for it on the bill, so no option to save money.
For one - you can use whatever brand/make of router you choose, or decide to use a open source firmware like ddwrt, openwrt, tomato, etc. And you can base all these options on the capabilities that you need/want.
I still don't understand how buying my own router would give me more control and prevent Spectrum from using my WiFi as a hotspot (if the setting was on). I don't understand the technicalities of how Spectrum creates these mobile hotspots but are you saying it is dependent on the make and model of the router? How would I know which router to buy that doesn't allow that? Spectrum installed a Sagecom router out of the box during installation so it's not like Spectrum programmed the router to configure it as a mobile hotspot unless they do that remotely. If they can configure routers remotely then why couldn't they do that with a router I buy?
I still don't understand how buying my own router would give me more control and prevent Spectrum from using my WiFi as a hotspot (if the setting was on). I don't understand the technicalities of how Spectrum creates these mobile hotspots but are you saying it is dependent on the make and model of the router? How would I know which router to buy that doesn't allow that? Spectrum installed a Sagecom router out of the box during installation so it's not like Spectrum programmed the router to configure it as a mobile hotspot unless they do that remotely. If they can configure routers remotely then why couldn't they do that with a router I buy?
Sorry if I misled you. I mean more control in an overall general sense. Specific to the provider provisioning their mobile hotspot service - this is something that they will only will do on their own equipment. you can still turn that option off (at least you can with Xfinity's service). This is fairly trivial. But they wouldn't even have the option of providing a mobile hotspot service through you if they don't own that equipment.
The concept of this 'hotspot' is essentially the same as a guest network. A separate wireless network is created and is 'logically' segmented from YOUR own network. That traffic is also likely tunneled (like a VPN) straight into the providers network. So if someone is using that hotspot service for nefarious purposes, it will be easy to tell that it's not from YOUR network. And I believe your traffic is prioritized over that hotspots traffic.
Said another way, Spectrum gives you the router with this feature on BY DEFAULT. It is their equipment and there is a setting on it "Allow Spectrum users to Connect to this Router". This is NOT a setting on any router you buy off the shelf at Bestbuy or truck from Amazon.
As Mac said though, on his you can turn this off. I would be shocked if they do NOT allow you to turn that off. That should be a standard option.
Quote:
Originally Posted by martinjsxx
Explicit means "stated clearly and in detail, leaving no room for confusion or doubt". If something is hidden in a 50 page document that they know almost no one will read then it is not stated clearly with no room for confusion.
Those documents aren't 50 pages long anymore. Due in small part to legislation in many parts of the world these docs are only a few pages, at best.
Said another way, Spectrum gives you the router with this feature on BY DEFAULT. It is their equipment and there is a setting on it "Allow Spectrum users to Connect to this Router". This is NOT a setting on any router you buy off the shelf at Bestbuy or truck from Amazon.
As Mac said though, on his you can turn this off. I would be shocked if they do NOT allow you to turn that off. That should be a standard option.
Those documents aren't 50 pages long anymore. Due in small part to legislation in many parts of the world these docs are only a few pages, at best.
Spectrum did not configure the router before installation. As I mentioned they installed it "out of the box", in other words a brand new Sagemcom router in original packaging in a closed box that had not been opened until it was in my home and the technician just hooked it up. It would have been the same if I bought it from Amazon unless Sagemcom makes special routers customized for Spectrum which I doubt. I think the router can be used by other providers such as Optimum so it is not a unique piece of equipment only usable by Spectrum and the packaging didn't say anything about Spectrum. Any configuration of the router is probably done by software. There is no physical setting on the hardware like a switch that allows Spectrum mobile users to connect to the router.
Yes, there is setting on Spectrum's website to turn it off which I mentioned I did in the first post in this thread.
As far as TOS documents not being 50 pages, you are correct. They are much longer than 50 pages. Spectrum's TOS has over 50 links many of which are much longer than one page. Some of the links are for business customers but that leaves over 40 links.
I still don't understand how buying my own router would give me more control and prevent Spectrum from using my WiFi as a hotspot (if the setting was on). I don't understand the technicalities of how Spectrum creates these mobile hotspots but are you saying it is dependent on the make and model of the router? How would I know which router to buy that doesn't allow that? Spectrum installed a Sagecom router out of the box during installation so it's not like Spectrum programmed the router to configure it as a mobile hotspot unless they do that remotely. If they can configure routers remotely then why couldn't they do that with a router I buy?
If you had your own stand-alone modem (without a router built in), and a stand-alone router, your ISP shouldn't be able to gain access to the router once you have configured it with new login credentials (as compared to factory settings). If you don't want a Guest Network, those settings can be disabled.
The only thing an ISP normally needs is that the modem be connected to their network (coax cable, etc., plugged into it) and the MAC Address from the unit given to them. They add the modem to their network, but you need to verify that everything works by testing the connection to your router (both wired and wireless).
Note that many ISP companies require that you use their modems if telephone service is being used. Also, if you are having problems, their ability to help via tech support is very limited if using your own equipment.
Here is a page from the Spectrum site with authorized equipment: https://www.spectrum.net/support/int...harter-network
They do list stand-alone modems that can be purchased through various resellers (Amazon, Best Buy, etc.). A router can be whatever suits your needs and is equivalent with what the modem can provide for connection speeds, etc.
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