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The core 'issue' is that the information age weaponizes data in such a way that is ruinous to peoples lives.
Completely, totally, brutally ruinous. Until public records laws catch up, it will continue to happen to people.
Every time I see a small town newspaper publish someones mugshot or write an article about some kid arrested for drunk and disorderly, I realize what that means to that person, as someone who googles people almost every day. Yeah, I'm considerate about it but this thread is a good example of the sorts of mentalities people run into, especially in low level corporate HR weeders who themselves are almost always complete monkeys.
The unaffected naive are very quick to bleat some moronic, simplified mantra based on from-high-above ideology. You get on the ground and you see the real human beings who have their lives destroyed by this, it makes you want to noose every half retarded ******* who writes it all some mantra like "don't do the crime if you can't do the time".
Before I start, we are talking about outliers because the average IQ of criminals is 90. That is 10 points below the average IQ of 100 but it's still within one standard deviation of the average (the standard deviation is at 15.) So, the CEO in question wants someone who is much more abnormal than run of the nil criminals. It is an outlier the CEO is looking for. The more common criminal that would have done this is infact white collar. The 90 IQ came from this article about a book.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell
Certainly there are those that have committed minor crimes that could be rehabilitated. However that is not always a risk willing to be taken by many employers. Even if non violent there can be a risk. I once worked at a place that hired a women that came out of a halfway house. She could not stand for more then ten minutes (it was retail). Apparently she was addicted to pain medications.
Especially in an employer's market. They'll only do that if there is an incentive to do so, such as tax credits or perhaps a lower wage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell
The power of compounding cannot be ignored. Those that cannot find work and have a criminal record might go back to doing what they did before and then the cycle does not stop. I would argue that it would be better to reform various crimes to prevent incarceration to begin with. Technically although marijuana is legal in Washington and Colorado employers still have the ability to drug test just as they can use anything within at will employment.
The drug use (even legal) is an issue but how do we stop it? Some use it for the escape factor and some are generally sick an addicted to these drugs. Then you also have the issue of medicinal use of marijuana in particular.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell
The other issue is there is so much in the way of financial information that it can block those with bad finances from working there. Social security numbers, credit card numbers, bank account numbers are just some of what can be used. It can be argued if someone is in significant debt that they might take advantage of a situation like that.
That is entirely true and often times it don't include the possibility of stolen information. My father's credit score is slowly getting better from a series of identity thefts about 10 years ago.
One guy I know, who is involved with a very successful hedge fund, said his ideal analyst candidate is felon with an IQ over 130, an strong academic background and at least *some* time in prison. This comes after decades of hiring Ivy League MBAs.
ROTFL. Good luck, but most people with IQs over 130 and a strong academic background don't commit felonies, and those that do mostly don't get caught for so long that they'll end up living out their few remaining days in Club Fed if they do :-)
ROTFL. Good luck, but most people with IQs over 130 and a strong academic background don't commit felonies, and those that do mostly don't get caught for so long that they'll end up living out their few remaining days in Club Fed if they do :-)
A bigger concern is that the employer will use the 130+ IQ felon to do something sinister to the investors (customers).
That is the other side as well. Now do I think all criminals are bad, no. It's the whole should the theft who stole for his/her family be forced to serve the same sentence as the theft that sole for him/herself debate.
If my post doesn't 'make sense', then you should get a refund on that MBA from University of North Carolina. (I only have a lowly BS from University of Chicago, so I bow to your academic achievements at such a prestigious school!)
You might want to learn what the word 'stigma' means, too, while we're at it, since you just made a 6th grade vocabulary failure.
A "disdain" for people without criminal records? "Holding felons on a pedestal"?
You're a fountain of stupid nonsense. For example "this leads me to believe you have a "stigma" (<- LOL) with academics being a gatekeeper to many jobs"
Protip, little boy. *I* am the gatekeeper to many jobs. Now, go look up the word 'stigma' and make a desperate, pathetic, disjointed 'case' about how it was accurate and not a complete embarrassment and demonstration that you're over your head in this discussion.
I, too, am a University of Chicago graduate. I am embarrassed that my alma mater did not teach you any humility. Unfortunately, our fellow graduate David Brooks' humility course is offered at Yale, not Chicago, but if you are working on Wall Street maybe you could take it at Yale. Here is the course description:
GLBL 345 01 (23724)
Humility
David Brooks
T 9.25-11.15 BASSLB L70
Spring 2013
No regular final examination
Areas Hu
Permission of instructor required
01/07/2013
Traditions of modesty and humility in character building and political leadership. Contemporary understandings of character and character building. The premise that human beings are blessed with many talents but are also burdened by sinfulness, ignorance, and weakness. The concept of humility in works by and about Homer, Moses, Augustine, Montaigne, Burke, Niebuhr, Martin Luther King, Jr., and others.
I actually don't like swampers (those who have stayed in one job for too long). Candidates with 3-5 years at a place, then another -- these candidates are more rounded, they have had different experiences / viewpoints, been trained in different systems -- to us this is a positive, not a negative.
They also break in easy, and have shown to be more adaptable to changing business conditions.
Swampers on the other hand, sometimes are too rigid, many still cling to "that's how we did business before (i.e. the nineties)", some are too unmotivated to impress or do better.
The core 'issue' is that the information age weaponizes data in such a way that is ruinous to peoples lives.
Completely, totally, brutally ruinous. Until public records laws catch up, it will continue to happen to people.
Every time I see a small town newspaper publish someones mugshot or write an article about some kid arrested for drunk and disorderly, I realize what that means to that person, as someone who googles people almost every day. Yeah, I'm considerate about it but this thread is a good example of the sorts of mentalities people run into, especially in low level corporate HR weeders who themselves are almost always complete monkeys.
The unaffected naive are very quick to bleat some moronic, simplified mantra based on from-high-above ideology. You get on the ground and you see the real human beings who have their lives destroyed by this, it makes you want to noose every half retarded ******* who writes it all some mantra like "don't do the crime if you can't do the time".
Just an arrest, much less a conviction, can ruin a reputation. The name in the paper is enough to turn off employers and clients, regardless of what really happened.
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