Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Well that is totally justified. and I'd be of the same opinion if foreigners were taking jobs meant for the indigenous people no matter where I come from.
But I justify my need (or rather, want) to work here because I've shelled out almost $70,000 (not counting all the other expenses I've uncured as a result of moving to Houston, buying a car etc etc add another $15,000 then) for my masters. It is for this very reason (and a few other minor reasons) than students in Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics (STEM) fields are given something called an Optional Practical Training (OPT) with a student visa. This serves 2 purposes:
1) it complements what you've learnt in school with industrial experience (its almost an optional part of the curriculum, thus the name OPT)
2) gives you an opportunity to not only serve the American Industrial & Scientific complex but also so individuals such as myself can get returns on our Investment in a fairly reasonable time.
this may come as arrogant, but i am damn well justified in trying to get a job here, because I dumped a s*** ton of money here.
may be you are unable to empathize with me because you imagine me to be the good 'ol Imigrant cliche of F1--->H1--->Green card ---> citizen which I assure you I am not.
If you shelled out a ton of money somewhere abroad, I m sure you'd want the same.
why, you may ask, did you come here then, shelling out all that money to come here only to have this false sense of entitlement?
Good question!
I'll be asking myself that, until things get better for me I guess.
I totally get your complaint. But, you know what? I shelled out 100k for my engineering degree in a "growing" field along with many of my "American" classmates and it's been a b*tch trying to get a job. And, I am an American citizen. Last year, I spent 10 months looking for work. And it's becoming a well know fact that the STEM shortage is a myth, even published by the IEEE The STEM Crisis Is a Myth - IEEE Spectrum
I can post several other articles on here that say the same thing, but why?
And frankly, hiring you above a US citizen with the same qualifications is a poor choice for our economy/government system. I mean the tax system is used for education, and why shouldn't AMERICA reap the benefits of it's investment before you reap the benefits of yours? And, why should you make a "s*** ton of money here" before the people that the US economy invested in? And, why should the gov pay unemployment for the person that would be working that job instead of you? Why are you more important than anybody else?
If you really wanted a visa, you should have gone into a field like CSE. Not Chemical engineering. It doesn't have to do with CSE's having "rare skills" it has to do with the mentality of the companies. CSE companies are more "open" to foreign workers. The oil industry doesn't feel that way. There are a lot more people to do the job, there is the buddy system, and the oil companies have to train their employees by law. Oh, and btw, it's a Chem is major with a 1/10 gets a job quickly field.
And btw, SCREW OPT. It's just a way to take jobs away from hard working, in debt, American students/graduates and get cheap labor that doesn't expect to be paid to be trained.
Sorry to break it to you but you are NOT owed a job here.
U.S. citizens pay the same amount or more for education and do not get the careers they went to school for. I am a fellow 'STEM' with a Masters from OHSU School of Medicine; and I did was not able to get a position in my desired field...
1. If in state fees are so much lesser than out of state (at least the state I studied in) imagine the fees for foreign students. it is more than double.
2. Get a placard and protest in front of the IT companies that call me 2-6 times every week and accompany their countless voice mails with colorful emails that say:
- We sponsor H1B visa and green card
-Accommodation and food provided
-Job placement within 2 months guaranteed
-$60,000 to $75,000 by the end of first year
-e-verified and 401k offered
-blah, blah and blah
they literally run the 'American Citizenship on a platter' industry
I am simply trying to complement my education with experience and make a return on my investment all the while working for a good $20,000 less than any American citizen
Actual phone conversation I heard from the CEO of this small process design company (with whom i was doing a ZERO freaking pay internship to maintain visa status for 6 months!!!), they also do engineering staffing:
"I'll get you a green card holder/citizen as an entry level process engineer with a MS for no less than $70,000, I have a MS guy with 2 years experience for $15/hour (that would be me, what a f****** joke)"
all the while I am thinking to myself ---> (it's alright don't focus on the pay for now, focus on what you can learn and how you can get the 'entry-level' tag off your profile)
My sense of entitlement, it appears, is nothing compared to what some people (especially those who will work for nothing less than $70,000/year)seem to have.
They will work for nothing less than 70K because they can get a job paying 70K. That's called supply and demand. It's what applies to the citizen/permanent resident workforce, and yes they are entitled to 70K if the market gives them 70K. And if all positions are filled by such people, then you are out of luck.
The degree you bought cost you far less than the total increase in income you would get over your lifetime by moving to the US. So you thought you could turn your 70K into a lot more money over time, and maybe you were wrong. Not all investments work. It's not the US's responsibility to bail you out. There are bailouts for large banks but not for foreign students. It may be unfair but this is the reality.
Do you have any immediate family here to help? Also, there is somewhat of a White Elephant in the room here, and I am not advocating this, but have you considered just simply overstaying your visa? It is not like you'd be the first one. Ba-Ha-Ha Ba-Ha-Ha!
Seriously, we have millions of illegals here from Mexico that are not educated, can't even read, or write and they are reaping all sorts of benefits from our government, and being invited to stay, and just the other day, their president told our president that he'd help his people prove they were here to fulfill the requirements (anybody think they will be honest about it? What a joke). I'd trade 10,000 illiterate illegal aliens for one educated person such as yourself. Just my two cents.
Sorry to break it to you but you are NOT owed a job here.
U.S. citizens pay the same amount or more for education and do not get the careers they went to school for. I am a fellow 'STEM' with a Masters from OHSU School of Medicine; and I did was not able to get a position in my desired field...
no they don't i paid $1200 per credit, my in-state classmates paid less than $500 per credit and my out of state counterparts paid $700.
this not considering the $100,000 stagnant liquid assets you have show as proof when applying for visa and periodically thereafter. the amount foreign students spent is far higher ---> this is a fact, unless you chose to be willfully ignorant.
Nobody owes me anything.
There is a system in place. the Optional Practical Training (OPT) for foreign students, which I have explained. a similar system exists in Germany, Netherlands the UK where I have many of my undergrad classmates studying. they all have similar systems. and the whole point of the system is to create a win-win for university, students and the nation.
university+nation = win (fees for university & foreign exchange for nation)
student = not too much win (advantage of keeping my job as production manager (monetary wise)+industry experience > than $75,000 + MS degree & classroom experience)
this system works a little too well (not good of citizens) when it comes to the silicon valley companies and their service providers. where as for the traditional branches of engg. mech, chemical, civil etc the system (at least in my experience is completely dysfunctional!). it either works too well or doesn't work at all.
and before you go off on foreign student coming here to study, some of these universities literally have agencies to funnel student into their programs. in 2011 i almost gave one such agency my money before I was advised to apply by my self based on US news rankings.
If international students paid just as much as local students, why do you think that is?
what you got to say? ---> 'life ain't fair bro' pfff...
Do you have any immediate family here to help? Also, there is somewhat of a White Elephant in the room here, and I am not advocating this, but have you considered just simply overstaying your visa? It is not like you'd be the first one. Ba-Ha-Ha Ba-Ha-Ha!
Seriously, we have millions of illegals here from Mexico that are not educated, can't even read, or write and they are reaping all sorts of benefits from our government, and being invited to stay, and just the other day, their president told our president that he'd help his people prove they were here to fulfill the requirements (anybody think they will be honest about it? What a joke). I'd trade 10,000 illiterate illegal aliens for one educated person such as yourself. Just my two cents.
My dad works for a sister concern of Exxon and he is in a senior level position. but in Doha, Qatar. to get a job in the middle east they require atleats 6 years of experience. believe me tried Doha, Qatar(grew up there), UAE, Kuwait. I'd clean dishes before I go to Saudi Arabia
I've lived in Muscat, Oman; Doha, Qatar and Yokohama, Japan. One thing me and my family religiously follow. when you are in another man's country don't break his rules. even if they are absurd like in some arab countries.
so, naah man that is out of the question. will only be here as long as visa is there. In fact i m thinking of not even getting the 17 month extension (thoughts of giving up are creeping in) if nothing has happened for 1 year and my bag is out of tricks, whats the point of spending $1200 every month for another 17 months?
(it is also illegal for me to work in any restaurant/part time job or any job not related to the engineering field. I love driving around the city of Houston when there is no traffic, but i don't do uber/lyft because the laws on it are not clear)
I did apply to a few open positions in basf Shanghai, shell india and companies in Calgary.leaving here is easy, one flight ticket and boom! good bye USofA but I think getting 2-5 years of valuable experience here will be good (and I got to admit i just like it here. I know the language and i can work 8-9 hours/day maybe a little more during peak workload times and save my ENTIRE salary that i'd get working in asia for 12-14 hours/day, imagine that. I m talking about entry-level guys). so I am gonna try as long as i got the drive. then probably look else where.
I am here on these forums to
a)rant - of which i am doing a great job i guess
b)anyone in a similar situation/advice
They will work for nothing less than 70K because they can get a job paying 70K. That's called supply and demand. It's what applies to the citizen/permanent resident workforce, and yes they are entitled to 70K if the market gives them 70K. And if all positions are filled by such people, then you are out of luck.
The degree you bought cost you far less than the total increase in income you would get over your lifetime by moving to the US. So you thought you could turn your 70K into a lot more money over time, and maybe you were wrong. Not all investments work. It's not the US's responsibility to bail you out. There are bailouts for large banks but not for foreign students. It may be unfair but this is the reality.
i am not trying to move here.
'degree I bought' ---> yup that's how it worked I threw a bunch of money at the university registrar and university's president flung my degree out the adjacent window. my 3.4 gpa and thesis defense was all just formality....
sure i'll finally make back the money some day. but that is not how investments work. how good an investment is, is also a function of time. i m not bankrupt, i don't need a bailout. i am trying to utilize the OPT provision, which for some reason is so damned easy in the software and electrical fields.
Not fair, eh? I mean what is happening to those who obey the law and follow the rules, vs those who break the rules and do things illegally. Such a paradox.
Anyway, I've been to Doha and Muscat... hot as hell there. I can see why you'd want to stick around a bit more in the US. You might check into one of the service companies like Halliburton, who often hire people abroad, and bring them into the US for a few years. I've known many who have hit the ground running in the US in regards to obtaining a permanent visa, and did it and stayed. Good luck (again).
1. If in state fees are so much lesser than out of state (at least the state I studied in) imagine the fees for foreign students. it is more than double.
I'm sorry, does my family and I paying into to tax system, which pays into the education system which EXPECTS foreign students to pay more because they didn't pay into it bother you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShankarM
2. Get a placard and protest in front of the IT companies that call me 2-6 times every week and accompany their countless voice mails with colorful emails that say:
- We sponsor H1B visa and green card
-Accommodation and food provided
-Job placement within 2 months guaranteed
-$60,000 to $75,000 by the end of first year
-e-verified and 401k offered
-blah, blah and blah
they literally run the 'American Citizenship on a platter' industry
Aren't these the jobs that expect slave labor that works 80-90 hours per week? Have fun selling your sole.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShankarM
I am simply trying to complement my education with experience and make a return on my investment all the while working for a good $20,000 less than any American citizen
I'm glad your acknowledge your slave labor. But, why should I compete with slave labor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShankarM
"I'll get you a green card holder/citizen as an entry level process engineer with a MS for no less than $70,000, I have a MS guy with 2 years experience for $15/hour (that would be me, what a f****** joke)"
Good luck with that. Because, we all know companies don't lie or screw over their employees. NOT.
Have you tried Alberta tar sands, Canada? Getting a work visa might be easier in Canada.
In the USA, O&G companies do not hire non-Americans, unless they have a PhD, a perfect 4.0 GPA, and years of industry experience. However, they do hire non-Americans back in their country of origin. Most of my foreign classmates after graduating went back to their country, such as India or China, and worked for an O&G company there.
What many non-Americans do is work 5-6 years back in their country of origin to gain O&G industry experience, then try to work in the USA.
you and a few others are the only ones who've actually said something I can use/think about based on your/your friend's experience.
thats what i'll do if nothing works out here.
Thanks!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Any family here to help/sponsor you?
