Came for a visit after 2 years of being away... (Knoxville: houses, crawl space)

[lauragizzi]

well i want to move for exactly that reason, greener grass !

that is how i honed in on the area, i googled the USA and focused on the greenest places i could find. then researched the areas.

sorry, tennessee is greener, and smack dab in the right place.

i am a stereotypical "tree hugger" and love nature. i live in my little yard all summer and am pleased by nature, animals, plants, (my water turtles/ pond) etc, more than anything

so naturally i want to be where the grass is greener! and where there is way more of it! along with trees and beautiful landscape.

[mjb62676]

I got a real surprise at how much houses in general there cost. It used to be that just a few years ago, you could pick up a decent starter house for maybe 70k or less. Most decent homes that I saw this time around were at least 150-200k. Many of the homes in the boring subdivision in Powell not far from the high school I went to had 220-250k asking prices. I can't imagine; 250k for some ugly looking brick rancher house. Whatever super-cost advantage the area might have had seems to have disappeared.

I'm glad I'm not the only one noticing this. I'm sorry, but anyone that thinks these "Knox Blocks" built on crawl spaces are a "deal" at 190K or so is sorely mistaken. These houses are what we call "cheap" where I come from.

I'll never understand why it's acceptable to people that builders are not at least pouring foundations under houses in this area.

The houses we looked at in Broadacres were all WAY, WAY overpriced for what they were and how much work they needed...yet, they are selling. It's baffling to me.

[Eat]

Originally Posted by mjb62676

I'm glad I'm not the only one noticing this. I'm sorry, but anyone that thinks these "Knox Blocks" built on crawl spaces are a "deal" at 190K or so is sorely mistaken. These houses are what we call "cheap" where I come from.

I'll never understand why it's acceptable to people that builders are not at least pouring foundations under houses in this area.

The houses we looked at in Broadacres were all WAY, WAY overpriced for what they were and how much work they needed...yet, they are selling. It's baffling to me.

How can you say the builders are not pouring foundations under the houses they build?

Crawlspaces are a type of foundation. They are completely legitimate. Some people like them, some people don't. Like everything else, there are plusses and minuses with them, as opposed to other foundation types, and like other foundations, they have to meet code in Knox and the other counties that enforce a building code.

[mjb62676]

I said that because in the new houses we looked at, most of them had crawl spaces rather than actual poured concrete, earth contact foundations. It's building "on the cheap" in my opinion.

Hey, as long as the houses sell, I guess that's what matters. I'm hoping so in about 37 months.

When I see 600 and 700K dollar houses on crawl spaces, I'm baffled just as much as I am when I see lower priced homes on crawl spaces.

I thought maybe it was a water issue, but that doesn't seem to be the case in many instances.

Considering most of them are built of cinder blocks rather than actual poured concrete, they are akin to a foundation under a manufactured home or a mobile home. Utility costs are at the top of my list for not liking it. That, and wasted space.

I'd hate to see what a real thunderstorm would do to some of the newer neighborhoods in Knox County.

[mjb62676]

Out of curiosity, what is the advantage of crawl spaces to the consumer?

[Eat]

Originally Posted by mjb62676

Out of curiosity, what is the advantage of crawl spaces to the consumer?

To your other post, they are not cinder blocks. They are concrete blocks. There is a big difference. There will be poured concrete footings under them.

Crawlspaces minimize or eliminate the radon problem. They are one of the least termite prone foundation types. They eliminate the damp basement flooding/mold issue, since they don't contain habitable space.

Crawlspaces, especially under ranchers, eliminate a set of stairs, compared to basements, which inevitably contain the furnace and other utility systems. This is sometimes an important criteria for the elderly, or those planning to grow old in their homes.

Crawlspaces are less expensive to build than full or partial basements, thus lowering the cost of the dwelling to the buyer. Slab foundations are even cheaper. Crawlspace foundations can be found under all types of homes, including very high end homes. They are not indicative of cost cutting in and of themselves.

[mjb62676]

Originally Posted by Eat

To your other post, they are not cinder blocks. They are concrete blocks. There is a big difference.

Crawlspaces minimize or eliminate the radon problem. They are one of the least termite prone foundation types. They eliminate the damp basement flooding/mold issue, since they are either vented or heated. The latter have proved to be workable, but are usually not permitted by code.

Crawlspaces, especially under ranchers, eliminate a set of stairs, compared to basements, which inevitably contain the furnace and other utility systems. This is sometimes an important criteria for the elderly, or those planning to grow old in their homes.

Crawlspaces less expensive to build than full or partial basements, thus lowering the cost of the dwelling to the buyer. Slab foundations are even cheaper.

Thanks. Those are some interesting notes.

I'd still prefer a full walkout basement, and if we build a home here will insist upon it. It allows you as a homeowner to finish out the basement (thus adding value) if you so choose, or use it as storage. Another huge issue would be the earth contact it provides, thus lowering energy costs.

I'm not sure why crawl spaces would have any advantage with regard to termites, however.

We drove around a bit today and found that our particular floorplan of Knox Block seems to be popular and sell well (and quickly), so that has given me hope for the future.

It still strikes me as something use to cut costs only because they can get away with it. In the midwest, you can buy the same homes as you see here for the same prices, but with full unfinished basement foundations under them.

Another nuance I've noticed here is there seem to be no newer "split foyer" homes being built which allows for more space for less money. Is there any particular reason for this? At first, I assumed this was a water issue, but water doesn't really seem to be an issue around here from what I can tell.

[creeksitter]

I think split foyers have just gone out of fashion. Too many were built in the 70's and 80's and people got burnt out on them. So you could get a good deal on one and remodel to your taste.

The basement/crawl decision is often based on topography. If the lot slopes to the rear then it's great for a walk-out basement. On a more level lot you want a crawl space. What you Don't want IMHO is a basement that is a hole in the ground. Too much could go wrong and you could be stuck with an indoor swimming pool you didn't anticipate.

I went yard sailing on Saturday and saw some beautiful homes for sale in the Lake Forest area (south). I was going to suggest that area to Silverbox as they are in the low 100's. Now I see that they would be perfect for Laura. Tree huggers are welcome and there are plenty of trees to hug. You can even walk to a great fruit stand across the highway.

[Eat]

Originally Posted by mjb62676

I'm not sure why crawl spaces would have any advantage with regard to termites, however.

Termites will build tubes to get up to the good eating above. The tubes will be visible in the crawlspace. In slabs or full basements, they will go up tiny cracks in the foundation and may not be noticed before a lot of damage is done.

[mjb62676]

Originally Posted by Eat

Termites will build tubes to get up to the good eating above. The tubes will be visible in the crawlspace. In slabs or full basements, they will go up tiny cracks in the foundation and may not be noticed before a lot of damage is done.

Yep, I get that. What I don't understand is how it's different. On the perimeter of our "foundation" there is a thin layer of concrete or something that looks very similar to what I've seen in poured concrete foundations...so I would think you'd see the trails in either one.

A slab home is an entirely different animal to me. I would definitely take a crawl space over a slab home for many reasons. At least with a crawl space, you can get to piping, etc...with relative ease.

This all reminds me, I'm pretty certain we've got a critter (probably a stray cat) living under our house in the crawl space. I need to look into that.