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Fair enough, but who's actually calculating these scores and with what margin of error. I'm not doubting you, but you haven't cited a source either. Even assuming these statistics are accurate, in some of the big cities I've lived in, what you say about violent crime doesn't hold true unfortunately. I guess that's where this place has the leg up. Although, I don't even know if it holds up here, but that's what a lot of people seem to say.
None of this to say that the property crimes are okay, either. I'm just saying, you're kinda fixated on it when things could be a whole lot worse. Nobody wants to get ripped off, but from your earlier statements, you make it sound more like you fear for your life than your car or your stereo. Which, if you do, you're entitled to your opinion and perceptions. I just have to disagree especially in light of the original call for comparisons to larger cities in the very first post.
And, just to set the record straight, you're right that most big city media don't cover property crime. However, residents of big cities are not less aware of it due to its lack of coverage in the media.
Fair enough, but who's actually calculating these scores and with what margin of error. I'm not doubting you, but you haven't cited a source either. Even assuming these statistics are accurate, in some of the big cities I've lived in, what you say about violent crime doesn't hold true unfortunately. I guess that's where this place has the leg up. Although, I don't even know if it holds up here, but that's what a lot of people seem to say.
None of this to say that the property crimes are okay, either. I'm just saying, you're kinda fixated on it when things could be a whole lot worse. Nobody wants to get ripped off, but from your earlier statements, you make it sound more like you fear for your life than your car or your stereo. Which, if you do, you're entitled to your opinion and perceptions. I just have to disagree especially in light of the original call for comparisons to larger cities in the very first post.
And, just to set the record straight, you're right that most big city media don't cover property crime. However, residents of big cities are not less aware of it due to its lack of coverage in the media.
It's none of my business, but LauraC has not said she fears for her life. Quite the opposite. She says the chances of being a victim of a violent crime are not high, unless you hang around in a bad area, have risky friends, etc. So where are you getting that.
What she has said it that for a town that size there is a lot of property crime and violent crime. That screams drugs to me, but that's just a personal opinion.
If you are happy in Oak Ridge, then that is great. As far as I know, LauraC really likes it there, too. But if my memory serves me, she is a retired researcher and is use to dealing with numbers and her numbers shake out.
And by the way, City-Data has all the numbers you need. There is in entire part of this website devoted to all the facts of relocation including crime.
Sorry about that. I'm not trying to come across as overly-aggressive or defensive, which on internet forums can be very difficult to do. As such, I didn't re-iterate certain points in my last post. I'm merely saying I thought her tone was a bit over the top in her first post and she did say the following, which is what I was referring to:
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC
If you are talking about drunk, drugged and/or unlicensed drivers maybe killing you in your car, in addition to the cell phone users, throw that in, too.
And that's how I read that, fear for more than property. If I mis-read, I apologize. And, I think I've gone as far as I can in stating my case anyway, so I'll leave it at that, unless Laura needs me to answer for anything else I said.
Fair enough, but who's actually calculating these scores and with what margin of error. I'm not doubting you, but you haven't cited a source either. Even assuming these statistics are accurate, in some of the big cities I've lived in, what you say about violent crime doesn't hold true unfortunately. I guess that's where this place has the leg up. Although, I don't even know if it holds up here, but that's what a lot of people seem to say.
None of this to say that the property crimes are okay, either. I'm just saying, you're kinda fixated on it when things could be a whole lot worse. Nobody wants to get ripped off, but from your earlier statements, you make it sound more like you fear for your life than your car or your stereo. Which, if you do, you're entitled to your opinion and perceptions. I just have to disagree especially in light of the original call for comparisons to larger cities in the very first post.
And, just to set the record straight, you're right that most big city media don't cover property crime. However, residents of big cities are not less aware of it due to its lack of coverage in the media.
Well, then how do they become aware of it if they or their friends aren't directly impacted or it doesn't happen in their neighborhood? People don't usually chit chat about property crime at the mall, over coffee, like they might for murder, rape or assault. For example, how would Miss X know that there were 3 purse snatchings, a store robbery attempt and 5 car break ins in the XYZ Store parking lot if the big city media doesn't report it? Doesn't that give Miss X a false impression that she and her property are safe when she goes to that store? "What I don't know won't hurt me" is not necessarily true.
I can't tell you the place where I get crime scores because it's a City Data competitior and the moderator always deletes the reference but it's done universally, not just by that site. Go to Google. Do a City Compare search and the site will be the first that comes up in the results. Look at the crime link. City Data has a similar method of scoring where it converts violent and property crime to a per 100,000 rate so you can compare, for example, a city like Oak Ridge to a City like Knoxville, only City Data breaks down the property and violent crime to smaller subcategories of crime. Overall, however, in 2007, according to City Data, Oak Ridge got a 414 for all crime, Knoxville got a 675.5 and the US average is 320.9. Just because someone came from a place that's worse, doesn't make the Oak Ridge/Knoxville scores good.
Look, it all goes back to what you are used to. I come from a town with a population size close to Oak Ridge. Where Oak Ridge scores a 6 for both property and violent crime on the competitive site, my former town scores a 3 for both property and violent crime. The town I lived in 14 years ago, in yet another state before that one, scores a 2 for violent crime and a 5 for property crime and I'm thinking that number went up in the 14 years since I lived there. Our newspaper prints the police blotter so I know if there have been house break ins and purse snatchings and car break ins and car theft. And yes, I do care about my property and someone possibly pushing me around, or being in my house or my car, to get to it.
On the City Data page, no crime chart is posted for either of my former towns.
Using your directions I found the site. I compared Oak Ridge to Memphis and it was 6 and 7, then I compared it to Detroit and it was an 8 compared to Oak Ridge's 6.
I have a hard time fathoming Oak Ridge being THAT BAD.
I checked city-data's stats, and like you said, Oak Ridge is 414 compared to the United State's 320. But Memphis is 962.9.
That's a LOT more crime than Oak Ridge.
I understand what you are saying about personal property crime, but I was a victim of a personal attack when I was 15 and I was not hanging out with the wrong people. I was under the state's care and my town barely had any crime, so it can happen anywhere.
When I first moved to Orlando I was terrified. The city was huge. Helicopters with a spot light flew overhead in one of my neighborhoods just like "Boy's in the Hood."
Fort Myers wasn't much better.
I took a long time researching where to buy my first home in Knoxville and I think I picked a great spot. My neighborhood looks like "Leave it to Beaver." In the back of my mind, I ALWAYS think someone is going to attack my daughter or myself, but I just try to forget it. If you are afraid all of the time then the criminals truly win.
And crime can happen anywhere. I always think of Truman Capote's "In Cold Blood." They lived in a farmhouse out in the middle of nowhere and were all slaughtered in the middle of the night.
Well, then how do they become aware of it if they or their friends aren't directly impacted or it doesn't happen in their neighborhood? People don't usually chit chat about property crime at the mall, over coffee, like they might for murder, rape or assault... "What I don't know won't hurt me" is not necessarily true.
Sorry I didn't make that clearer, but that's what I was implying. I do have to admit that I probably misrepresented how much it's actually covered by local media, though it's rarely headline material. You mainly find out about stuff like that exactly as you described, though personal experience and discussions with others (everyone I know talks about stuff like that if it happens to them or their neighborhood, even here) And experiencing it personally tends to make you MORE aware not less. I say this as a victim of multiple crimes. That's why I feel the way I do about Oak Ridge, I think I'd have a tendency to be more skittish than others regarding such activities. But hey, maybe I did get jaded along the way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC
Just because someone came from a place that's worse, doesn't make the Oak Ridge/Knoxville scores good.
Look, it all goes back to what you are used to....
I completely agree. I've stated several times that crimes, violent or otherwise are unacceptable and I've tried to make it clear that just because there are fewer by comparison doesn't make what does happen okay. But the original context of this thread was comparisons to much more dangerous cities such as New Orleans and DC, hence my constant comparisons to such. Not for the purpose of saying what goes on here is acceptable, but if you're used to those cities, you're probably going to be just fine here for the most part.
In any case, I apologize if I've offended you or anyone else over the course of this discussion. I feel I've made my point abundantly clear and you certainly have made yours. And so I'll leave it at that, unless you or others need me to clarify anything else.
Please keep in mind that all statistics are based upon REPORTED crimes. Living in the Detroit Metro area, I can guarantee that a very significant portion of crimes, violent and property, are not reported to the police. Mostly because the police in much of the metro area are not very helpful or responsive, or the population is simply more tolerant of crimes.
In smaller towns, especially those with well trusted and respected police departments (like Oak Ridge as I understand it), many residents are friendly with the police and won't hesitate to report even minor incidents.
I don't think this would skew the crimes per capita results by a huge margin, but I would say on a scale of 1 to 10, I would expect a 2 point swing between a city with poor reporting rates and a one with a high report rate.
So for Detroit, read the 8 as a 9 and for Oak Ridge read its 6 as a 5.
Remember, statistics are dumb, they only tell you what you ask, and to infer any more than what they actually say can be a fatal mistake. Unfortunately that other site does not provide their figures in crimes per X residents so we have no way to determine how that scale equates to real data.
Also, because the stats typically use a crimes per 100,000 residents, the numbers can be unfair. Say, for example, a man in Oak Ridge has a breakdown and murders his wife and 3 kids. That's 4 murders, or 14 per 100,000 residents... however unless you were in this guy's family there was no public risk.
Also, in many cities, people commute into town from other towns to work, this increases the number of victims beyond the population of the city, yet the data only looks at crimes per the number of residents. So some cities, like DC, with a daytime population figure that is 4 times higher than it's actual resident population experiences an unfair measurement. Sure a lot of crimes happen there... but there are actually 4 times as many potential victims than the stat measures. So to say 1000 thefts per 100,000 residents makes you think you have a 1 in 1000 chance of experiencing theft... but 3/4 of those thefts were against non-residents. So in reality you only have a 1 in 4000 chance of becoming a victim.
I say, ask the people who live there if it's safe. If they tell you they fear for themselves or their property, then move somewhere else. Trust me, you KNOW when you live somewhere unsafe. Some crime doesn't make people feel unsafe, most teenage boys engage in some crime, even in great neighborhoods; then there are examples like the one above which are horrible but don't make people feel unsafe in their homes.
I've never lived in Knoxville but I currently live in Oak Ridge, in the Briarcliff area. I feel safe here. There are some bad parts of Oak Ridge, like off Tuskeegee. Just go to the Oak Ridger online and look up Teller Village for example. But those areas are mostly known for petty crimes, like cars being broken into. I have also heard of purse snatchings in the Walmart parking lot. Oh, and I remember when they discovered a meth lab in a car in the Kmart parking lot years ago. Stuff like that happens here, but I don't hear anything about violent murders and really bad things like that.
Most of our business is here in Oak Ridge. We do our grocery shopping, doctors, etc. here. If I go into Knoxville, it is usually anywhere from the Turkey Creek area to Papermill, and I feel it is safe there (I guess that would be considered west). Basically, there are times I have errands on Kingston Pike! But like I said, I never lived there, only go to restaurants that aren't in Oak Ridge or will occasionally shop there. Anytime we are going anywhere for "fun" we head to the Smokies!
But as far as me stopping in any place in east/northeast Knoxville, no way Jose. I would never feel safe there now.
But as far as me stopping in any place in east/northeast Knoxville, no way Jose. I would never feel safe there now.
Yeah, it's really dangerous everywhere in east/northeast Knoxville. For example, in Holston Hills you have to watch out for the raging residents looking to hurl golfballs at any innocent person who dares to visit out there. And never make eye contact with a farmer on his tractor in Corryton, he'll probably run you over. It's practically a war zone out there!
Yeah, it's really dangerous everywhere in east/northeast Knoxville. For example, in Holston Hills you have to watch out for the raging residents looking to hurl golfballs at any innocent person who dares to visit out there. And never make eye contact with a farmer on his tractor in Corryton, he'll probably run you over. It's practically a war zone out there!
Give me a break.
Don't forget the killer cows!
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