[TexasVines]

Originally Posted by tony soprano

Now that you've managed to put a few recognizable points together - as opposed to the previous unpunctuated, stream of conscious mess, let's take a look at them -
I live in a state that perennially makes the list of top ten least business-friendly states in the Union, yet California also has the highest state GDP by a wide margin. On a per-capita basis, CA still cracks the top ten GDP ranking. Yet, all this happens with much higher taxes, much higher cost of housing, more expensive labor, and much more regulation than Vegas. How can this be?There's been no benefit? Really? Asian Casinos Save Las Vegas Sands (LVS)
If you're going to explain to others why Vegas is in the shape it is, and how it got there, I think you'll need to hit the books a little harder.

California has a highly educated work force....or they did they are working on ruining that

California has abundant natural resources they use to take advantage of like oil, timber, oceans, and some minerals

California is a coastal state and not just that they are a coastal state with huge port infrastructure and Asia across the pond

California is still one of if not the largest AG producer in the USA

California developed their high tech industries and even when those are down they still have to invest in them to keep competitive

having said that all the things you mentioned that they have managed to still thrive in spite of are killing their economic "thrive" and Nevada has next to none of those and they still have relatively high wages compared to other places especially for basic industry jobs and they still have a relatively high cost of "lifestyle"

so difficult to compare the two and the suffering in California is obviously hitting Nevada hard as are the casinos on every corner in California and everywhere else

so California has numerous things and advantages that most other states don't

as for the Asian casinos......there are a lot of Asians that would have just never come to Las Vegas to gamble and Asia still has some growing economies.....I was specifically mentioning the USA gamblers that use to save up and take a once a year trip to Vegas and drop their gambling and vacation money there.....now they have a ton of choices of where to gamble and there are plenty of better places for a real vacation if you are not going to gamble and they are often less expensive than the new Las Vegas

and I am sure plenty of companies are missing some of the Asian high rollers and while a few companies with Asian operations might be able to ride out the downturn there are dozens of other gaming companies still in a long term world of hurt

[Robustus]

Originally Posted by TexasVines

I was specifically mentioning the USA gamblers that use to save up and take a once a year trip to Vegas and drop their gambling and vacation money there.....now they have a ton of choices of where to gamble and there are plenty of better places for a real vacation if you are not going to gamble and they are often less expensive than the new Las Vegas

You're only gonna spend a lot in Vegas if you:
A) Don't care much about money.
B) Are a moron.

There are tons of great hotel, drink, meal, rental car, airfare deals in Vegas that you can't touch in any other major city in the US. It's not hard to spend a week on the strip, hardly ever pay for a drink, eat gormet-ish meals for MUCH cheaper than any other major city, and spend less than $300 in lodging (for the week). No, that's not staying at Bellagio, but c'mon - Imperial Palace, Ballys, Sahara, Excaliber, etc. For that matter, I did a package recently for 7 days at MGM that included round-trip airfare from NYC for $455 total. It also came with two free show tickets. Tell me that's not a cheap vacation.

You also keep mentioning other casinos in the US. Sure, there are plenty of places to gamble, but they suck! I've lived hear Foxwoods/Mohegan, and near Atlantic City, and near Harrah's Cherokee in NC, and none of it compares. A casino here and there doesn't compare to the Vegas experience at all. ... I don't know what your problem is, Tex, but you're totally misrepresenting matters. You're definitely not person-type A above....what gives?

[Tiger Beer]

Don't know.

But, I have noticed credit card companies and other financial-related...they seem to like places like Utah or the South, and I think it is partly because of perception of 'honest' people - regardless if it is true or not.

I wonder sometimes if the perception of Vegas hurts it, as companies might assume the overall moral of the residents to be lower than elsewhere. Purely a guess though.

[TexasVines]

Originally Posted by Robustus

You're only gonna spend a lot in Vegas if you:
A) Don't care much about money.
B) Are a moron.

There are tons of great hotel, drink, meal, rental car, airfare deals in Vegas that you can't touch in any other major city in the US. It's not hard to spend a week on the strip, hardly ever pay for a drink, eat gormet-ish meals for MUCH cheaper than any other major city, and spend less than $300 in lodging (for the week). No, that's not staying at Bellagio, but c'mon - Imperial Palace, Ballys, Sahara, Excaliber, etc. For that matter, I did a package recently for 7 days at MGM that included round-trip airfare from NYC for $455 total. It also came with two free show tickets. Tell me that's not a cheap vacation.

You also keep mentioning other casinos in the US. Sure, there are plenty of places to gamble, but they suck! I've lived hear Foxwoods/Mohegan, and near Atlantic City, and near Harrah's Cherokee in NC, and none of it compares. A casino here and there doesn't compare to the Vegas experience at all. ... I don't know what your problem is, Tex, but you're totally misrepresenting matters. You're definitely not person-type A above....what gives?

honestly I am just presenting one persons take on a question that was ask

and while I agree that you can go to Vegas cheap....the fact of the matter is it takes a great deal more effort to do that than in the past and it now takes a great deal more effort than many of the not much effort USA citizens are willing to invest

and while I will not sneeze at $455 dollars or say that is in any way expensive for a vacation....in fact I will say it is cheap...very cheap.....but it is much harder to swing that $455 when you have blown $100 a week for the past 5 weeks in one of those casinos that I 100% agree with you TOTALLY SUCK

the fact they don't compare to Vegas is 99% of the reason they suck.....dumb gamblers, poor service, poorly trained employees, crap food, and not that good of a price in an area most people would not dump trash in if it did not have a casino

but the fact is that someone is spending money there and the fact is there is only a limited pool of money that can be spent on gambling.....and every dollar dropped in one of those places is a dollar less spent somewhere else

Vegas made their way with hotels (and everything else that goes along with that) that stayed full......now we have 50% full "hotels" scattered all over back woods Louisiana, New Mexico, and Oklahoma and a ton of other places.....and hotels in Vegas that are a lot less full than in the past

I suppose my original post was as much a comment on what is killing places in the USA all over the country.....the idea that "hey this place had success with some industry" so lets 100% ignore what it was that helped them have success and lets try and steal that business from them....I will be the first to admit Texas is banking on that very thing right now stealing companies from other states because of their taxes and cost of living......but as of right now we are at least stealing industries that actually produce something of value instead of stealing something that has about the same economic impact of stealing another towns pro sports franchise....which is to say next to none.....and to be honest many of the places Texas is getting industry have pretty much 100% done it to themselves and those companies would be looking to relocate somewhere else in the USA if not overseas

again with the exception of some of your politicians, some of your union bosses, and a poster or two on this forum I have no ill will towards Las Vegas or Nevada.....but I do have an opinion on why they are suffering there and I tried to present it...and while I have no issues with gambling and have enjoyed it in the past.....I have absolutely ZERO use for gambling in Texas just as I have absolutely no use for trying to get some pro sports team, another amusement park, or anything of the like here in Texas as well......because I don't believe in building an economy by trying to take a piece of others success and I see entertainment industries as not providing a long term viable product in places that don't offer something unique or special to attract people to start with

if I want to go the the beach I want to go to the real beach not a cheesy wave machine in an industrial park.....if I want to go to the lake and fish I go to the lake not a stocked pond where you pay by the pound....if I want to snow ski I go to the mountains not some indoor crap and I go to ski until I can't walk and then sit in the hot tub not to go ski for 2 hours and then waste money in cheese town casino for the rest of the day

sadly I think many many more people feel as I do and they just don't express it other than just not going to those places and spending money and even more sad is I feel the entertainment centered industries will NEVER figure it out even when beat over the head with it....and it is doing damage to a lot of places especially Vegas and leaving a lot of places with a bag of dung and broken promises

just like Hockey as another example....a sport in a place where few people have seen ice outside of a freezer, a sport most don't understand or have never played, and a team with a 3-25 record and $55 dollar tickets to a brand new arena that is used 50 times a year = hey my city is broke, our team sucks, and look they just moved now we have a 25K seat ice rink we still get to pay for.....while cities in Canada would kill for a pro hockey team.....the owners never made money on the actual fans and attendance they made money in the perceived increase in the value of the franchise and another dot com new money fool with more money and ego than common sense......and now that is catching up to many of them

we need to get back to actually producing things in the USA.....and honestly I don't think Vegas will ever be the place to do that.....but if Vegas can get back to being a unique, easy to find a deal, place with a unique attraction they can get back to being the adult entertainment/gambling capital of the USA and they will have their niche and do well with it

[irishspy]

Most people view Las Vegas as the srtip. They do not realize there is a normal world that surrounds it. There are many industries which do not need water as their source to open up and run. Vegas needs to market it self more than just a fling on the strip and back on the plane. It needs to market the retirement (baby boomers) group to move there you do not get laid off from retirement. Go to the McCasinos throught out the country and see what age group is there. It will take 10 to 20 years to get the education level above average so in the interm import. Baby boomers are educated and will still work while retired. Your weather is the most plus thing going especially to us older folks.300 days of sunshine never has happen to me. So hang in there the rest of the country is suffering and sooner or later Nevada will begin to rise again.

[tony soprano]

Originally Posted by TexasVines

California has a highly educated work force....or they did they are working on ruining that

California has abundant natural resources they use to take advantage of like oil, timber, oceans, and some minerals

California is a coastal state and not just that they are a coastal state with huge port infrastructure and Asia across the pond

California is still one of if not the largest AG producer in the USA

California developed their high tech industries and even when those are down they still have to invest in them to keep competitive

I'd add a number of things to California's list of competitive advantages, but you've illustrated my point that there are many more factors that figure in a company's decision on where to locate than the cost of labor and natural resources. That said, let's talk about those costs-

having said that all the things you mentioned that they have managed to still thrive in spite of are killing their economic "thrive" and Nevada has next to none of those and they still have relatively high wages compared to other places especially for basic industry jobs and they still have a relatively high cost of "lifestyle"

Let's compare Vegas labor costs and cost of living with two Texas cities that have faired pretty well during the downturn, Austin and Dallas. I'd like to rely on US census data for this comparison but until the new numbers are available, the existing census data is quite dated. That said, I'll provide the following link - Kiplinger.com

The COL index uses 100 as the national average

Las Vegas - COL index 100 - median household income $54,299
Dallas - COL index 92 - median household income $53,748
Austin - COL index 94 - median household income $54,827

I'm not seeing anything in the way of wildly diverging labor costs or COL that would discourage a company from locating to Vegas, are you? So maybe it's the high cost of natural resources that you mentioned? BTW, what natural resources would those be? Oil, timber, oceans, minerals, what exactly?

so difficult to compare the two and the suffering in California is obviously hitting Nevada hard as are the casinos on every corner in California and everywhere else

so California has numerous things and advantages that most other states don't

as for the Asian casinos......there are a lot of Asians that would have just never come to Las Vegas to gamble and Asia still has some growing economies.....I was specifically mentioning the USA gamblers that use to save up and take a once a year trip to Vegas and drop their gambling and vacation money there.....now they have a ton of choices of where to gamble and there are plenty of better places for a real vacation if you are not going to gamble and they are often less expensive than the new Las Vegas

and I am sure plenty of companies are missing some of the Asian high rollers and while a few companies with Asian operations might be able to ride out the downturn there are dozens of other gaming companies still in a long term world of hurt

Clearly, exporting has worked for Vegas. If not for international revenue, corporate Vegas would be in much worse shape. If you limit your argument to the domestic market I suppose you can make the case that the domestic gaming market is saturated. I don't know if that's necessarily true or not. I'd need to see some supporting numbers. Do you have any?

[yellowsnow]

Originally Posted by MediocreButArrogant

Are you serious? Las Vegas has one of the worst educated workforces of any large city in the USA. Every one of my friends who has relocated from CA has gone through culture shock getting used to dealing with the uneducated, barely literate Las Vegas simpletons who are the majority here. "McCarran" is not only the answer to where you go for good health care in Las Vegas, it's also the answer to where you go for intellectual stimulation.

Yes, I'm serious. More than 1/2 the people I'm working with(dead end retail job) are degreed. My pool guy has a PHD. The last cab driver I rode with had a degree. I find well educated people hiding all over the place here. Then there are all the retired people too. Most of them have more than a little schooling.

I know there are scads of barely literate here, Las Vegas used to attract them like moths to a flame.

I admit there's not much here that's intellectually stimulating. Not many Goethe discussion groups on the strip.

[AD1985]

Question for small business owners: Are you happy with your workforce in terms of turnover (during good and bad times), job competence, employee stability, general attitude at work, etc?

I'll be honest, my impression of the LV workforce is not the best, though I admit I'm stereotyping and have little real world experience in the area.

[aggrofish]

Okay I skimmed through most of the replies, so let me add this: First, NV markets heavily (or did a year ago) to CA business owners. The campaign is very political like in that it attacks CA and touts all the positives NV has to offer. What the campaign, nor anybody else for that matter will tell you, that you will have to find out for yourself is that Clark County is not business friendly AT ALL. It is much, much simplier to set up a business in CA. (keep in mind my experience is limited to San Diego and Orange County) It is also much more convenient to operate a business In CA.

Yes, There are tax advantages to being in NV. Yes wages and the overall cost of living is lower. However, Las Vegas as a service based industry and has a very, very poor labor pool for all but the most simple jobs.

Service providers (phone/cable/utilities/licensing/etc.) to business are the worst I've ever seen. I've had people just not show up too many times to count. Want to put a shelf in your warehouse? You better go down and get a permit first. Need a business license? Expect the building inspector to show up unannounced and expect him to try to get you to pull all permits on a leased facility. Then wait for the county fire inspectors and then the fire inspector for your insurance which is mandatory in order to get your business license.

In CA you have a UPS, Fed Ex, and California Overnight drop box in every buisness park. You also have somewhere to get something to eat. There's generally a Costco/Staples/Office Depot relatively close.

The way everything is spread out here in Vegas and the fact that in the SW a lot of the roads that are dead ends makes even the most simple tasks much more difficult than they need to be. This is more of a nuisance and probably wouldnt prevent a business from locating here.

The Labor pool and quality of life for employees are the reason more large corporations dont move here. I moved here specifically for tax purposes and dont regret it, but there a lot of annoying things about Vegas that I didnt have to deal with in CA.

[lyra33]

Originally Posted by Tiger Beer

Don't know.

But, I have noticed credit card companies and other financial-related...they seem to like places like Utah or the South, and I think it is partly because of perception of 'honest' people - regardless if it is true or not.

I wonder sometimes if the perception of Vegas hurts it, as companies might assume the overall moral of the residents to be lower than elsewhere. Purely a guess though.

You may be on to something. I know it would be expensive but I wish Nevada would invest in UNLV. Having competitive higher education would hopefully attract cutting edge research and industry and would attract people to come here to get an education. Right now renewable energy is the buzz and hopefully UNLV can play a big role.

Sadly UNLV is getting slashed to the bone as we speak. They are doing away with entire departments.