[cmist]

Originally Posted by tony soprano

Yeah, if you don't count the ~118 failed banks, the nationalized entities, or financial institutions acquired for pennies on the dollar, there have been absolutely no consequences at all.WHOA! Fiscal responsibility? Now you're just talking crazy!My suggestion is even simpler. People shouldn't take out loans to purchase overvalued assets. Crazy, I know.

We'll have to agree to disagree. It's late and I'm getting tired of typing.

When you mention the bank failures, how bout you dont forget about all the banks that are still standing even though they FAILED?! Show me one homeowner that didnt pay the price by losing their home when they FAILED to make their payments??

Your solution is definitely simpler. And by that logic we should get rid of police. People shouldnt kill or steal from one another. Hmm then again your name IS Tony Soprano so you probably dont agree with that either.

Regardless, I could probably make reasons to get rid of just about every business based on what people "should" or "shouldn't do" Good luck creating your dream world based on your "suggestions"

I agree to disagree with you 100%.

[olecapt]

Originally Posted by cmist

I agree to disagree with you 100%.

It is easy and fun...enjoy..

[J78Jason]

Originally Posted by tony soprano

My suggestion is even simpler. People shouldn't take out loans to purchase overvalued assets. Crazy, I know.

That's easy to say that know that we know all those assets were overvalued. At that time, it just seemed like Las Vegas was becoming a mini-Southern California and that the housing prices were just going to get more and more expensive as Las Vegas became a more desireable place to live.

I remember in 2005-2006 meeting handfuls of So-Cal people moving to Vegas so they could buy a house, and the opinion of most, if not all, was that this was going to continue until the locals got priced out. As Olecapt said, California had been running on the runaway-train model of housing prices for 25 years and it was working great. Las Vegas simply looked like it was on that same track, and people didn't want to get left behind.

At the same time Tony, I definitely agree with your view on responsible borrowing. Nobody forced me to buy a home. But it just seems like a lot of people on here have this "you got what you deserved" mentality" (not saying you are one of those people), but like I said earlier in this thread, I knew a lot of people (many who are much smarter than me) who bought at the same time I did.

I feel like this is simply a case of wrong place wrong time, not some mass degeneration of people's reasoning and levels of financial responsibility.

[VerdeOjos5]

Originally Posted by tony soprano

My suggestion is even simpler. People shouldn't take out loans to purchase overvalued assets. Crazy, I know.

at the time, people didn't necessarily know they were "overvalued" now looking back of COURSE i can see that on my home. 233K for this little 2 bedroom 1 bath townhome? WHAT WAS I THINKING! I wasn't. I wanted to be a young home owner and i was PROUD that I was able to put 20% down and have a home of my own.

I was one of the ones that did things right, however because of everyone that DID NOT do things right, im now underwater approximately 90 thousand dollars. and the 45K i put down? GONE, never to be seen again. YOU know how heart breaking that is? yes i know i could be much worse off and there are plenty out there like me... but it IS the bank's fault.
I take responsibility in knowing what my loan terms are, what my payments are, etc. etc.... but the fact that the bank's loaned to soooo many people that were NOT QUALIFIED? that's not okay. and i blame both lender and buyer, but more so the lender because there IS a lot of real estate jargon that doesn't always make sense. They should have asked questions, certainly I did, but the lenders also have a way of making it seem like things WILL BE FINE, you can do it etc etc etc. and maybe some of these mortgages were given to non-English speaking citizens so there was some discrepancy.

I agree with cmist and you both to some extent. Fiscal responsibility is one's own to take care of. You run your credit cards up, that's your fault. but this whole housing bust? not so much.

[cmist]

I agree too about the housing panic. It happened in Phx too that way, and there were ALOT of people that were willing to do whatever they had to in order to afford their home. There was a HUGE fear of being priced out of the market, and people scrambled to pay whatever sellers were asking. So my point is if banks didnt artificially create buyers that could afford those prices, the home prices would have had to stay priced in line with real demand.

Banks wouldn't have been able to make any loans if they could only loan what a borrower could afford, since no homes were in the price range of a realistic qualification. So.... they changed all the lending rules to accommodate this new climate, which only caused it snowball faster, and eventually crash and burn.

How many loans were given to borrowers with stupid teaser rates, huge balloons or other adjustments but then they just told their borrowers, "Don't worry about it, you can just sell or refinance when that time comes." Well here we are... Can anyone sell or refinance for what they paid???

[tony soprano]

Originally Posted by cmist

When you mention the bank failures, how bout you dont forget about all the banks that are still standing even though they FAILED?! Show me one homeowner that didnt pay the price by losing their home when they FAILED to make their payments??

If you're having difficulty finding a homeowner that's still in their home after failing to make their payments, you're not looking very hard. I've lost count of the number in this forum alone.

Your solution is definitely simpler. And by that logic we should get rid of police. People shouldnt kill or steal from one another. Hmm then again your name IS Tony Soprano so you probably dont agree with that either.

Regardless, I could probably make reasons to get rid of just about every business based on what people "should" or "shouldn't do" Good luck creating your dream world based on your "suggestions"

I agree to disagree with you 100%.

You seem unfamiliar with the concept of personal responsibility. How is it possible that millions of people haven't met with financial ruin when they have tens of thousands of dollars in credit at their fingertips? Does a bank representative follow those people around and make recommendations on how much they charge during any given month?

"I think fast food restaurants should be closed down because if they didn't make junk food available there wouldn't be so many morbidly obese people. Those evil corporations sell that stuff knowing full well that people can get fat if they eat too much of it. All they care about is profits."

[tony soprano]

Originally Posted by J78Jason

At the same time Tony, I definitely agree with your view on responsible borrowing. Nobody forced me to buy a home. But it just seems like a lot of people on here have this "you got what you deserved" mentality" (not saying you are one of those people), but like I said earlier in this thread, I knew a lot of people (many who are much smarter than me) who bought at the same time I did.

I feel like this is simply a case of wrong place wrong time, not some mass degeneration of people's reasoning and levels of financial responsibility.

Jason, in case I haven't been clear, I'm not suggesting that everyone is getting what they deserve. This train wreck has affected most everyone I know, including personal friends and family. I think where my opinion may differ from others is that I believe the ultimate responsibility for my decisions lie with me.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by Slim10

........

The govt should consider baby bonuses. In about 18 years, that should solve the issue of vacant houses

They do.. The deduction is called a dependent. If you don't have a job, it's called increased welfare payments for more kids.

[RCCCB]

This point in history isn't the only time real estate values went down.

Seems to happen almost every decade and they people in the past had the character and quality to pay their bills.

You bought property hoping things would go up and financing would continue to be easy.
That is a roll of the dice.
If you lose, the people of this nation shouldn't be made to pay welfare for people by bailing them out of homes.

IMO if people walk, their credit should be smashed for 25 years. That would be about right.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

It's my opinion that Cmist and Tony's points are equally valid. Follow the money. The lenders, the RE agents, the home owners using their home as an ATM, the loan officers, Wall Street repackaging the financial instruments, Freddie and Fannie, Barney and Dodd with his fat contributions, etc.

There is lot's of blame to go around.....