[VerdeOjos5]

Originally Posted by jfkIII

When you get a hangover, do you blame the liquor store for selling you the Jack Daniels?

When you lose at the craps table, is it the dice's fault, the casino's or the thrower's?

Of course, if you buy a house above your means, it surely is the bank's fault.

Once again, this is a generalization that i AGREE WITH. but you are leaving out the people that DID NOT BUY ABOVE THEIR MEANS.

what about them that got caught up in this mess?

[cmist]

It makes NO difference who banks answer to because in either case, their actions helped neither the home buyer or their shareholders. Tell me, how much were shares of any given stock in a bank back then and where are they now? Are these shareholders out there celebrating the wise decisions of the banking institutions they were invested in??

The regulation of the stock exchange examples you give is another irrelevant unrelated topic.

Stocks are gambles. Anyone entering the stock market at $95 a share has obviously got some disposable money to play with. Big risks, big rewards, such is the stock market. I could care less how much someone lost in the stock market. You would never make money by playing it safe in the stock market, and savvy investors take the risks with the rewards.

Homeowners, on the other hand, those that are purchasing homes to live in are not usually purchasing their first home as a gambling tool. But maybe in Vegas they do, and that would explain the mess. Anyone I know in Phx trusted they were conducting business with someone that wasnt paying off appraisers to "make it happen". They believed them when they were recommended and coerced to accept a funky loan and are told, "its ok, you can sell or refinance if you cant afford it when the payment changes". Ok, so they score some points for not using guns or physical torture. Ill give you that much.

It all boils down to this statement alone.

"If ALL the banks did was act responsibility, they would have TURNED DOWN irresponsible buyers, which in turn would have avoided the whole fiasco, and on top of that protected their shareholders investment, as you say is their primary function."

Period. end of subject. Nothing really debatable about that.

I suspect you are someone who made a tremendous amount of money off of unsuspecting buyers, or maybe are currently profiting on the turmoil, because I see no other reason to keep coming back to me with ridiculous defenses and making bogus claims that I am seeking to get big brother to hold my hand and everyone else.

I bought many years ago, and am one of the few people that are not upside down, so this isnt coming from a bitter vantage point. Its coming from a pure disdain of the corruption that is all around and remarks from people like you that everyone it was THEIR fault and the banks were actually the VICTIMS of the buyers they approved?? Its utterly absurd and totally illogical!!!

I have no credit cards, my cars are paid off. I think credit, loans, and interest are diabolical, especially if it means you have to deal with the current banking scheme. Regardless, l would defend anyones right to use credit they qualify for in any manner they see fit...

However I think the providers of such credit should be selective for their own good, and presumably the rest of the nation that they dont indebt people that they KNOW are not able to repay. All that is asking for is good business and a little admission of guilt from the banking sector. NOTHING else.

[tony soprano]

Originally Posted by olecapt

And with the banks gone that says those who had mortgages are now free and clear right? Or at least modified to present market. Fair payment to the lenders for their lack of due care.

Yeah, the ~118 banks that have failed YTD, all the loans on their books magically disappeared.

Maybe cheerleading realtors should refund their ill gotten commissions?

[cmist]

Originally Posted by tony soprano

Yeah, the ~118 banks that have failed YTD, all the loans on their books magically disappeared.

Maybe cheerleading realtors should refund their ill gotten commissions?

Maybe no realtors would have earned commission in the first place if lenders didnt cheerlead the appraisers into "making it happen"????????

When you run out of ammo, this is all you can say.

Ive gone into great depth, SEVERAL pages worth as to why I believe lenders are the source, lets hear all of your reasons why realtors are.

I'll start the list.

1. "Cheerleader-ed Buyers"

Go on...

[cmist]

Oh but Tony...

The realtors never used a gun!!!!! Are you forgetting that one??? LOL!!!

[tony soprano]

Originally Posted by cmist

It makes NO difference who banks answer to because in either case, their actions helped neither the home buyer or their shareholders. Tell me, how much were shares of any given stock in a bank back then and where are they now? Are these shareholders out there celebrating the wise decisions of the banking institutions they were invested in??

The regulation of the stock exchange examples you give is another irrelevant unrelated topic.

Stocks are gambles. Anyone entering the stock market at $95 a share has obviously got some disposable money to play with. Big risks, big rewards, such is the stock market. I could care less how much someone lost in the stock market. You would never make money by playing it safe in the stock market, and savvy investors take the risks with the rewards.

Homeowners, on the other hand, those that are purchasing homes to live in are not usually purchasing their first home as a gambling tool. But maybe in Vegas they do, and that would explain the mess. Anyone I know in Phx trusted they were conducting business with someone that wasnt paying off appraisers to "make it happen". They believed them when they were recommended and coerced to accept a funky loan and are told, "its ok, you can sell or refinance if you cant afford it when the payment changes". Ok, so they score some points for not using guns or physical torture. Ill give you that much.

It all boils down to this statement alone.

"If ALL the banks did was act responsibility, they would have TURNED DOWN irresponsible buyers, which in turn would have avoided the whole fiasco, and on top of that protected their shareholders investment, as you say is their primary function."

Period. end of subject. Nothing really debatable about that.

I suspect you are someone who made a tremendous amount of money off of unsuspecting buyers, or maybe are currently profiting on the turmoil, because I see no other reason to keep coming back to me with ridiculous defenses and making bogus claims that I am seeking to get big brother to hold my hand and everyone else.

I bought many years ago, and am one of the few people that are not upside down, so this isnt coming from a bitter vantage point. Its coming from a pure disdain of the corruption that is all around and remarks from people like you that everyone it was THEIR fault and the banks were actually the VICTIMS of the buyers they approved?? Its utterly absurd and totally illogical!!!

I have no credit cards, my cars are paid off. I think credit, loans, and interest are diabolical, especially if it means you have to deal with the current banking scheme. Regardless, l would defend anyones right to use credit they qualify for in any manner they see fit...

However I think the providers of such credit should be selective for their own good, and presumably the rest of the nation that they dont indebt people that they KNOW are not able to repay. All that is asking for is good business and a little admission of guilt from the banking sector. NOTHING else.

What an absolute train wreck. How is it that you've managed to go through life without paying twice what everything is worth?

SOMEONE PLEASE SAVE ME FROM MYSELF BECAUSE I'M UNABLE TO MAKE DECISIONS IN MY OWN BEST INTEREST!!

[tony soprano]

Originally Posted by cmist

Oh but Tony...

The realtors never used a gun!!!!! Are you forgetting that one??? LOL!!!

Yeah, I must have forgot.

Originally Posted by tony soprano 7 pages ago

There's plenty of blame to go around everywhere, but there were no bigger cheerleaders to the housing bubble than realtors.

[cmist]

Originally Posted by tony soprano

What an absolute train wreck. How is it that you've managed to go through life without paying twice what everything is worth?

SOMEONE PLEASE SAVE ME FROM MYSELF BECAUSE I'M UNABLE TO MAKE DECISIONS IN MY OWN BEST INTEREST!!

Tony's well is dry, the only thing left is insults.

I made a great deal of money honestly, never refinanced, paid off my cars, have no credit cards. These were my decisions, and made from my own free will. Regardless of how responsible I have chosen to live, or how other responsible people live, they are living in needless turmoil because of the greedy banking system.

I dont need to be saved from myself, but rather from people like you. Im glad I can just turn off my computer and never have to see or hear from you ever again. Is there a way to block posts from particular people. After this useless conversation with Tony, Im really confident NOTHING will ever come out of his mouth that means anything.

[olecapt]

YOu simple need to remember that the Ayn Rand branch of the LIbertarians are in really awful shape.

After 30 plus years of increasing deregulation it turns out the markets will not self regulate. What they do is maximize short term profit at all costs.

Alan Greenspan the ultimate Ayn Rand backside kisser even finally agreed that it was not true. Left alone the markets go for greed even at the cost of self destructing.

Of course the remnants try to insist that it was over-regulaton...After 30 plus years of the opposite.

But facts never bothers true believers...Who rant on...

[cmist]

Originally Posted by olecapt

YOu simple need to remember that the Ayn Rand branch of the LIbertarians are in really awful shape.

After 30 plus years of increasing deregulation it turns out the markets will not self regulate. What they do is maximize short term profit at all costs.

Alan Greenspan the ultimate Ayn Rand backside kisser even finally agreed that it was not true. Left alone the markets go for greed even at the cost of self destructing.

Of course the remnants try to insist that it was over-regulaton...After 30 plus years of the opposite.

But facts never bothers true believers...Who rant on...

Im not thinking of "regulation" when I say any of this. Im only of the belief that banks need to identify which loans blew up in their faces and stop offering them. Its what any good business would do. I also believe that if they used a little brain power it was easy to spot the products they offered were flawed and exactly as you said, "Geared for maximum short term gain at ALL costs", which includes the the destruction of the whole nations economy. To me thats a monumental price to pay just so banks have the privelege of some short term profits. The only other thing that I think is necessary is that they stick to tried and true methods of qualifying their borrowers, and not revert to easy financing to anything with a pulse when it becomes profitable again.

If you own a subway and every time you put some weird new sauce on the sub the customers take one bite, throws it out and demands a refund, you would stop using the weird new sauce, otherwise you would go broke. Thats just common business sense.

Thats all I'm suggesting and nothing radical or crazy. But banks nor people with the "Tony" mentality want to say that they f*cked up. This refusal to put blame where its due is only going to allow the same series of events to replay.

Your post Olecapt was refreshing, and I totally understood it was written with intelligence. Thanks it really was a breath of fresh air. I seriously would like to find a way to block anything written by Tony. His meat-head mentality enfuriates me and I would rather not see anything he writes. Is there a way to do such a thing.