Let's discuss the H-1B program... (sponsorship, deportation, citizenship, Canada)

[tipitop]

Originally Posted by Threestep

OK - engineering is your field. Once you factor STEM grads through OTP and H1B in - a lot of US grads barely cut the mustard. BTW - H1B is a long shot from slavery but often a sure route to Green Card.

Throw me some light. As I see only Germans and Japanese make better products then USA. Where than this superior engineers come from? If not from Germany and Japan, and they do not come from there, where this “better” engineers come from? Outer space?

[candycanechick]

Originally Posted by Kannadiga

Slavery is a strong word to use but changing jobs while on H1B can be annoying. Lot of companies understandably do not want to get entangled with the legal process of sponsoring H1B. On top of that, if a company started your green card process, you have to stick with the company until and even after you get the green card for some time.

This is why it should be taken out of the control of the company. Guest workers should be able to compete for the best pay and work conditions. Tying there hands with stupid policies like forcing them to stay with a certain company doesn't help anyone but the company, and companies are EVIL.

Originally Posted by Kannadiga

There weren't 135K. 65K has been the limit for quite some time now.

Actually, there are 65k regular H-1B's, then 20k for H-1B's that graduated from US stem masters and PhD programs, and then there are the H-1B's that work at places like NASA, Lawrence Livermore, Sandia National Lab, John Hopkins, etc. these places do not have H-1B caps and are considered academic/researcher H-1B.

Originally Posted by Kannadiga

And there is no such tax treaty with India. H1Bs have to pay all taxes and deductions just like US citizens

Actually there are several tax treaties with several countries, but just like import tax, you don't see it.

Originally Posted by Kannadiga

and contrary to what many people think, H1Bs do not get back benefits like Social security, unemployment etc.

This is half true. It depends on which country your from. If you are from a country that has a SS type program, then that money is handed over to your country (again depending on the treaty). If you are from some countries, and pay into SS from 10 years, there are several treaties that say that you are eligible for SS. (again depending on the treaty) But, these treaties do exist.

[Heidi60]

The Bay is stuck with a lot of those workers. Many of them register with their agencies so they are found new jobs before their current one ends. To see the companies claiming they can't find workers and see their pay scale check out this: MyVisaJobs.com.

Some of them do leave when they have made enough money and return to their home, but many more stay and just go from one job to the next while Americans are denied college seats and jobs to keep them happy.

[ThisDamnLife]

Originally Posted by candycanechick

Personally, I think this hurts America in two ways. 1.) American's don't have the job, so a portion of Joe H-1B's taxes are going to his government.

I'm a former H1b holder. So, I speak from my own experience. I do believe american workers, in general, are getting hit from a point of view of wages but not from a hiring perspective. Even the wage depression isn't entirely 'coz of H1-B program but a variety of factors put together (lot more automation, the rest of the world competing for american jobs that can be done offshore, corporate america's greed, govt's antipathy esp the republicans towards worker rights) have made sure that wages shall remain depressed for all workers - natives or otherwise.

I don't see any logic in the argument of portion of Joe's taxes going to his govt. Can you elucidate on how you arrived @ this conclusion? My taxes were paid only to the US govt while I was in H1B and the same continues now. Heck, I haven't filed taxes in my home country for years. So, I don't understand how a H1B visa holder earnings here get taxed by his home country.

Originally Posted by candycanechick

2.) Joe isn't making as much as Joe is worth

In my experience, your statement is only half-true. Yes, the H1b holders who initially come here through small body-shopping companies come @ a low salary (not like 30-40k but in the low 60s) but the govt has cracked down severely on such companies that this business practice is on the wane. The govt though still hasn't been able to do much with the MNCs that get the bulk of the H1b visas. Lot of visas (atleast 1/3rd of 85k visas /yr) are garnered by students who've completed their masters in the US. IMO, a majority of visa holders in these category are paid much better & also the category which is bound to raise in the coming years.

Also, whether Joe H1 or Joe American, what he's worth is always debatable. No matter how well a corp pays, I'm quite sure we all feel at one time or another or most of the time that we aren't paid what were worth.

[ThisDamnLife]

Originally Posted by candycanechick

Point 2, the problem is that we allow more than 65k H-1B workers (Somehow there were 135k issues last year), and Congress plans to vote to raise that limit this year. There are estimates that say that the US loses close to $3 Billion in taxes every year because H-1B workers are paid below market value.

Estimates are like gum. You can elongate them or shrink according to how you massage the data.

Originally Posted by candycanechick

Then considering tax treaties (say with India) that say the US government has to return a portion of it's collected tax dollars from Indian Citizens, means we are loosing a load of tax dollars.

I would love to see this treaty so that I can ask the indian govt what they 've been doing with my taxes. India & the US 've a taxation treaty whereby when it comes to Indian nationals earning their income in the US, they don't 've to file taxes in India along with having to do it in the US (avoid double taxation).

Seriously, think about it. Given the serious deficit issue facing most countries, who in their right mind will agree to partake with income tax monies.

Originally Posted by candycanechick

The other thing about point, that I was trying to not get into, is that college grads in the STEM fields have a pretty high unemployment rate. 60-67% of college engineering grads from the 2012 class that were looking for work, found work. Meaning that 30-40% couldn't find engineering jobs. These are grads from Georgia Tech, PENN, Michigan, Perdu, Ohio State etc. So:

1.) these people are not being hired at market rate
2.) a portion of their tax $$ go to the country they are a national of
3.) US college grads are not finding work

Do you 've credible news articles or data to prove your point? What type of engg grads are you talking about? If you've to talk about unemployment among professional grads, what about lawyers, MBAs who are now coming out of school with truck loads of debt with no prospect of finding a good pay job that help them start whittling down on that 200k student debt.

My basic point is don't blame all of america's worker ails on the H1B visa holder because it's easy to do so but even if you drive out all H1b holders tomorrow most of the issues that affect an american worker shall still exist.

Originally Posted by candycanechick

Your right that a contact is a contract, but immigration should be between a government and a person, not a company, a person, and a government. This current relationship is screwy. I agree people should be able to sponsor themselves like in Canada. Remove the middle man!

I

[shinning]

I personally oppose any legal or illegal immigrants coming to America when workers are unemployed. This should be better regulated, and shut off the spout until our people are working.

If corporations in America insist on these programs, then our workers should have the same advantages as these foreign workers have. I guess that is a form of competition isn't it? Why should Americans be denied jobs by bringing in a foreigner who gets a free education, free job training, free job placement in his country, and our workers have to pay for these things if they want the same job in their own country? Its not a fair system.

Wish you well.

[le roi]

Originally Posted by movingwiththewind

In addition, you're saying that H-1B people are treated like second class residents. Well, H-1B is considered to be a TEMPORARY visa, so what do you expect?

I expect no american workers should be considered second-class residents.

If that means elimination of the temporary visa, then so be it.

[ThisDamnLife]

Originally Posted by shinning

I personally oppose any legal or illegal immigrants coming to America when workers are unemployed. This should be better regulated, and shut off the spout until our people are working.

If corporations in America insist on these programs, then our workers should have the same advantages as these foreign workers have. I guess that is a form of competition isn't it? Why should Americans be denied jobs by bringing in a foreigner who gets a free education, free job training, free job placement in his country, and our workers have to pay for these things if they want the same job in their own country? Its not a fair system.

Wish you well.

Life isn't fair, shinning. It's what you make out of it .

[Collective]

The problem with the "no immigrants until everyone is working" argument is that not everyone can do every job. If Mike the assembly line worker is fired, no company should be forced to fire Rakeesh the software engineer and replace him with Mike. Because Duh.

[treemoni]

Originally Posted by movingwiththewind

H-1B workers are not slaves. Nobody forces these people to come to the US on H-1B visa. They are also free to quit their jobs at any time.

Neither slaves nor indentured servants can do all those things.

In addition, you're saying that H-1B people are treated like second class residents. Well, H-1B is considered to be a TEMPORARY visa, so what do you expect? Of course, due to the visa terms, they have fewer rights than US citizens or permanent residence (a.k.a. green card holders) who have PERMANENT status in the country. Is that fair? Maybe not, but those are the terms of H-1B visa.

Of course, H-1B workers (and their family members) have certain restrictions due to their H-1B status in the US. However, nobody forced this status on them and nobody holds them as captives or forces them to stay and work.

H-1B visa is a contract which both sides are free to break at any time, no more no less.

I agree. Keyword here is GUEST. You have a home country, and you should really be contributing to that country instead of the brain drain. I don't have any sympathy for H-1B holders. They should be well-verse in the program stipulations before agreeing to enter. Many of the jobs they do can be done by Americans anyway.