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LI has 127 school districts, each with its own superintendent, assistant supers, support staff, etc., etc. The cost of super pay alone, calculated at a conservative $250K, not including medical and pension for life, taxpayer-paid car, etc., etc. is $3,1750,000 per year.
Consolidation, with one super per county would cut the cost to $500K. Saving well over $3,1750,000 every year would be bad for taxpayers?
Does it feel special having your own super? Supporting for this critter comes straight out of your wallet. Having fun with that?
OK, give up supers who do a really tough job few teachers want and save $3.1m. OR cut teacher salaries 1% across the board and save $28m. Very conservative estimate based on 35k teachers at $80k per year BEFORE benefits. Supporting these critters comes straight out of your wallet too, x9. Run that up the taxpayer flagpole and see who salutes.
LI has 127 school districts, each with its own superintendent, assistant supers, support staff, etc., etc. The cost of super pay alone, calculated at a conservative $250K, not including medical and pension for life, taxpayer-paid car, etc., etc. is $3,1750,000 per year.
Consolidation, with one super per county would cut the cost to $500K. Saving well over $3,1750,000 every year would be bad for taxpayers?
Does it feel special having your own super? Supporting for this critter comes straight out of your wallet. Having fun with that?
It is worse. Your math is wrong. It is $31,175,000.000 Each year. (and yes, your 250K number is conservative)
You might also factor in the costs of the assistant superintendents for curriculum and instruction, the assistant superintendents for business and finance, the deputy superintendents, the associate superintendents, the curriculum associates, etc. From each of the 127 districts (as applicable).
While the number of kids and school buildings would essentially not diminish under a county-wide consolidation, there would be a reduction in district central offices and district central office personnel (the various superintendents of all stripes and their associated staffs). Of course there would be a new county-wide superintendent with assistants and support staffs.
I do agree that consolidation is something that should be looked at. However, I am also sure that any savings are not guaranteed.
Look at corporate mergers where all the savings and elimination of duplicate services are promised. Studies consistently show that the promised savings are almost never achieved. Somehow, people think that government - and we are talking about the bloated, inept and corrupt NY/Long Island government - is somehow going to vastly outperform the private sector and exceed the rosiest savings predictions. Sure - I can see everyone giving up all those patronage jobs to save us a few dollars.
There has been an analysis of school district mergers with proponents and opponents on both sides of the issue. Most studies agree that districts with 1500 or fewer students provide the best chance for an actual saving. Not so much for larger districts. There are only 29 districts on LI with 1500 or fewer students.
Administration cost is easy to attack, and I agree many of these people are grossly overpaid. It almost seems that some areas compete for who can overpay their superintendent by the largest amount. There are so many holes in the admin savings argument.
Sure, we would go from many to one superintendent. That doesn't mean all those high paid jobs will be eliminated. Having to be in charge of a full county, the new boss would likely be paid even more. S/he would then have numerous deputies, likely making as much as many current superintendents. Support staff would not magically decrease to a small fraction of what now exists.
But let's take the vastly oversimplified example posted earlier. Eliminate all the superintendents and replace it with one. Savings of $31million per year. Sounds great? There are 1 million households on Long Island. That just saved an average of $31 per household. (Again - oversimplified. The savings is less when spread across non-residential taxpaying properties.)
There is also the upfront cost of consolidation. Initial years would likely see a large increase in costs (taxes). Most studies show it would take up to ten years for any savings to materialize. That's IF any savings actually exist, which is highly unlikely on a mass scale. The reality is that taxes will go up and stay there.
I'm all for looking at the issue. I'm all for consolidation of specific districts where it makes fiscal sense. Talk of county-wide consolidation may sound good when using simplified examples but doesn't really hold up to real-world analysis.
Costs are reduced by reducing costs (insanely high salaries and benefit packages).
It goes well with the Big Dig which is being reviewed once again....
Quick factoid: The thread resuscitator joined the forum the month after the last post in the original thread. So they just missed it the first time around by a hair.
But let's take the vastly oversimplified example posted earlier. Eliminate all the superintendents and replace it with one. Savings of $31million per year. Sounds great? There are 1 million households on Long Island. That just saved an average of $31 per household. (Again - oversimplified. The savings is less when spread across non-residential taxpaying properties.)
The point was that any savings that might accrue would be from eliminating all of the 127 LI school district central offices and staffs .
You are getting that 31 million savings (derived from a 250K salary estimation) from simply eliminating the one chief superintendent from each district central office.
What about the elimination of the assistant superintendent (s) (200K per?) from each district central office, the assistant superintendent for business from each central office (200K?), associate superintendents, deputy superintendents, directors, curricular associates, other various and sundry hangers-on, etc and their staff? Syosset, for example, has six superintendents alone - the old days of one superintendent, a business guy, and a secretary as the sole occupants of the central office bureaucracy are long gone. I'd quadruple or quintuple that 31M figure (salary, not benefits BTW) for starters.
Of course discussions of this sort hinge on simplifications and of course a new island-wide superintendent office and staff would be a new expense.
I do agree the whole enterprise would be unlikely to reduce our property tax burden unless more costs are shifted to the state (via an increased state income tax).
The other obstacle in this plan is that job preservation aside, I am sure that at the broaching of the subject, every currently autonomous district would have educated their stakeholders in the peril of this plan. That peril of course, would be aimed at the educational aspect of consolidation and there would not be a peep about the duplicative services being eliminated or the potential for savings the stakeholders might realize.
No, just like when my former district consolidated from 4 elementary schools to 3 due to declining enrollments, and leased that building, the administration was focusing on the educational benefits of the plan to win the votes over and the stakeholders were worried that the kids would need to be on a bus a few minutes earlier and later. From an economic standpoint it made sense, the voters approved the plan and as far as I have heard there were few wrinkles. Interestingly enough the taxes still increased in line with other years.
My post being depending upon which side of the fence you are on, the spin will be to that sides favor and finding the "truth" between the two sides is the golden nugget.
It is worse. Your math is wrong. It is $31,175,000.000 Each year. (and yes, your 250K number is conservative)
You might also factor in the costs of the assistant superintendents for curriculum and instruction, the assistant superintendents for business and finance, the deputy superintendents, the associate superintendents, the curriculum associates, etc. From each of the 127 districts (as applicable).
While the number of kids and school buildings would essentially not diminish under a county-wide consolidation, there would be a reduction in district central offices and district central office personnel (the various superintendents of all stripes and their associated staffs). Of course there would be a new county-wide superintendent with assistants and support staffs.
So he was talking about all superintendents across LI, equaling approx $31mil in salary. Now consider there are approx 35,000 teachers, if 80k being the minimum salary (and that's obviously conservative), that's $2.8bil in salary. With a B. Our reasons for high taxes are not in the superintendents. It is clear it's in the teachers who EACH demand stupid-high, costly, benefits with their inflated salaries (well above $80k).
The other obstacle in this plan is that job preservation aside, I am sure that at the broaching of the subject, every currently autonomous district would have educated their stakeholders in the peril of this plan. That peril of course, would be aimed at the educational aspect of consolidation and there would not be a peep about the duplicative services being eliminated or the potential for savings the stakeholders might realize.
No, just like when my former district consolidated from 4 elementary schools to 3 due to declining enrollments, and leased that building, the administration was focusing on the educational benefits of the plan to win the votes over and the stakeholders were worried that the kids would need to be on a bus a few minutes earlier and later. From an economic standpoint it made sense, the voters approved the plan and as far as I have heard there were few wrinkles. Interestingly enough the taxes still increased in line with other years.
My post being depending upon which side of the fence you are on, the spin will be to that sides favor and finding the "truth" between the two sides is the golden nugget.
I think the experts agree that there are no real savings with consolidation - - I have never even heard that promise made.
So he was talking about all superintendents across LI, equaling approx $31mil in salary. Now consider there are approx 35,000 teachers, if 80k being the minimum salary (and that's obviously conservative), that's $2.8bil in salary. With a B. Our reasons for high taxes are not in the superintendents. It is clear it's in the teachers who EACH demand stupid-high, costly, benefits with their inflated salaries (well above $80k).
What's the benefit and salary package like in VA?
No, 31M was just focusing only on the individual chief superintendent from within each of the 127 school district central offices. I then pointed out:
"What about the elimination of the assistant superintendent (s) (200K per?) from each district central office, the assistant superintendent for business from each central office (200K?), associate superintendents, deputy superintendents, directors, curricular associates, other various and sundry hangers-on, etc and their staff? Syosset, for example, has six superintendents alone - the old days of one superintendent, a business guy, and a secretary as the sole occupants of the central office bureaucracy are long gone. I'd quadruple or quintuple that 31M figure (salary, not benefits BTW) for starters."
Elimination of all district central offices and the 100M+ (in salary alone) they represent each year might yield some savings in consolidation.
I don't see teacher/building level layoffs as part of a consolidation (other than here and there).
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There are so many holes in the admin savings argument.
