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There's nothing to negotiate. Pension payment rates are set by the state -- not by contract. The state has been making adjustments to the pension system since 1973 and now has 5 tiers. Tier 5, enacted last year, requires 3% contribution for all members for all years of service. It also raises the retirement age and years of service required to retire. As far as I know, all new hires (including police and fire) are supposed to be put in Tier 5 and will contribute to the system for their entire careers.
Local politicians have no say in how much employees will contribute to the pension system. The state will tell them (the jurisdictions) how much they will be paying into the system based upon the number and salaries of their employees. Legislation (on the state level) is required to make substantive changes to the retirement system.
The health insurance issue, on the other hand, has nothing to do with the state and the employee share of the cost is the subject of local contract negotiations.
I thought the same, all were covered by Tier 5 but saw this note on the SCPD site. Not sure about NCPD.
"*Non-contributory pension plan. Members are eligible for retirement after twenty (20) years of service at 50% of three (3) year final average salary. Vested retirement plan after five (5) years."
(*Non –contributory pension plan subject to change as per New York State Pension Plan)
Sick days are meant to be insurance. Employers provide them so that in the event of an illness, an employee can continue getting paid. Think about it. When you purchase supplementary insurance like AFLAC (which I'm sure no one in the public sector has to do very often) you are effectively paying for the right to be covered if you are ill for the long term.
The idea that sick days should accumulate and be cashed out is frankly a legalized fraud plain and simple. People are being paid for an event that never happened (ie. they weren't sick)! Imagine if a private company had that business model. Imagine State Farm paying you chunks of money even though your house was never damaged. Or, imagine Geico paying you chunks of money even though your car never had a dent.
This is a legalized fraud on all of us as taxpayers. Frankly, it's shameful that this practice was ever allowed. I'm all for the most generous sick pay programs around. Hell, you can give someone up to 6 months of short term disability per year. But, rolling that over and paying it out is fiscal insanity!
If you actually sit down and think about this benefit from an unbiased and logical standpoint, it makes no sense at all.
The idea that sick days should accumulate and be cashed out is frankly a legalized fraud plain and simple. People are being paid for an event that never happened (ie. they weren't sick)! Imagine if a private company had that business model. Imagine State Farm paying you chunks of money even though your house was never damaged. Or, imagine Geico paying you chunks of money even though your car never had a dent.
This is a legalized fraud on all of us as taxpayers. Frankly, it's shameful that this practice was ever allowed. I'm all for the most generous sick pay programs around. Hell, you can give someone up to 6 months of short term disability per year. But, rolling that over and paying it out is fiscal insanity!
If you actually sit down and think about this benefit from an unbiased and logical standpoint, it makes no sense at all.
I agree with this 100%. My last job gave us a generous amount of sick time each year but it did not roll over from one year to the next. Yes there were a few deadbeats who felt the need to use all their sick time (use it or lose it was their motto), but those people never got promotions or raises and were perceived poorly by their co-workers. Most of them didn't last long or were shifted to the worst jobs. The majority of people didn't abuse it.
Sick days are meant to be insurance. Employers provide them so that in the event of an illness, an employee can continue getting paid. Think about it. When you purchase supplementary insurance like AFLAC (which I'm sure no one in the public sector has to do very often) you are effectively paying for the right to be covered if you are ill for the long term.
The idea that sick days should accumulate and be cashed out is frankly a legalized fraud plain and simple. People are being paid for an event that never happened (ie. they weren't sick)! Imagine if a private company had that business model. Imagine State Farm paying you chunks of money even though your house was never damaged. Or, imagine Geico paying you chunks of money even though your car never had a dent.
This is a legalized fraud on all of us as taxpayers. Frankly, it's shameful that this practice was ever allowed. I'm all for the most generous sick pay programs around. Hell, you can give someone up to 6 months of short term disability per year. But, rolling that over and paying it out is fiscal insanity!
If you actually sit down and think about this benefit from an unbiased and logical standpoint, it makes no sense at all.
Actually, from an administrative perspective, it makes a whole lot of sense. When someone calls in sick in the police department, most often that person must be replaced. Since there aren't people just standing around waiting to fill in for a sick co-worker, an individual must be called in -- on overtime -- to fill the position. Allowing people to be paid for their sick leave is an incentive for them not to use it. The payment of a straight days' wages versus a day at overtime rates is a cost savings for the department. And there are limits: retiring members can only be paid for half of their sick leave, up to a specified maximum.
Contrary to what you might believe, there are lots of companies in the private and non-profit sector that allow employees to accumulate and roll over sick leave, as well as be paid upon separation. There are as many variations on the sick days issue as there are organizations. And by the way, some auto insurance companies will pay you monies for each year you don't have an accident claim. Kind of the same thing...
Actually, from an administrative perspective, it makes a whole lot of sense. When someone calls in sick in the police department, most often that person must be replaced. Since there aren't people just standing around waiting to fill in for a sick co-worker, an individual must be called in -- on overtime -- to fill the position. Allowing people to be paid for their sick leave is an incentive for them not to use it. The payment of a straight days' wages versus a day at overtime rates is a cost savings for the department. And there are limits: retiring members can only be paid for half of their sick leave, up to a specified maximum.
Contrary to what you might believe, there are lots of companies in the private and non-profit sector that allow employees to accumulate and roll over sick leave, as well as be paid upon separation. There are as many variations on the sick days issue as there are organizations. And by the way, some auto insurance companies will pay you monies for each year you don't have an accident claim. Kind of the same thing...
So, what you are saying is that we must give police an incentive so that they don't fraudently use their sick days? Nice. The truth is that if police only used sick days when they actually needed them, and there was no rollover or payout....the overtime cost would PALE in comparison to the savings achieved. Of course, that depends on the honor of the police force.
As someone who works with HR in the private sector all the time, I can tell you that few companies allow rollover of sick leave and even fewer to almost none allow a sick leave payout. It's a costly practice that cannot be afforded. Yet, we ask our taxpayers to afford it.
As for the insurance analogy, it's not quite the same thing. In the insurance scenario, the policy holder actually pays premiums out of his/her own pocket for that protection. Any reimbursement of that is a pittance usually. The police on the other hand do not contribute any of their pay towards sick pay allotment.
Sick days are meant to be insurance. Employers provide them so that in the event of an illness, an employee can continue getting paid. Think about it. When you purchase supplementary insurance like AFLAC (which I'm sure no one in the public sector has to do very often) you are effectively paying for the right to be covered if you are ill for the long term.
Actually, if it wasn't for AFLAC, my SO would have been up a creek when he was out injured. I believe most of the guys he works with have it, too. So civil servants in at least one department can and do get it, which is good because they need it.
So, what you are saying is that we must give police an incentive so that they don't fraudently use their sick days? Nice. The truth is that if police only used sick days when they actually needed them, and there was no rollover or payout....the overtime cost would PALE in comparison to the savings achieved. Of course, that depends on the honor of the police force.
As someone who works with HR in the private sector all the time, I can tell you that few companies allow rollover of sick leave and even fewer to almost none allow a sick leave payout. It's a costly practice that cannot be afforded. Yet, we ask our taxpayers to afford it.
As for the insurance analogy, it's not quite the same thing. In the insurance scenario, the policy holder actually pays premiums out of his/her own pocket for that protection. Any reimbursement of that is a pittance usually. The police on the other hand do not contribute any of their pay towards sick pay allotment.
How many people do you know that take a "mental health" day? Or use their sick time to take kids to appointments, and the like? The police department wants to make sure that sick leave is used for those who are truly sick. Quite different from the private sector.
You seem to like to throw the word fraud around a lot which indicates that your opinions on the issue are quite biased. The truth is that sick leave in the police department is both a contractual and departmental issue and is administered quite differently than you'd imagine. This is not the private sector and you can't expect it to be run that way.
And by the way, it was you who raised the insurance analogy: "Geico doesn't pay it homeowners for not having their house burn down." I simply refuted your statement.
I agree with this 100%. My last job gave us a generous amount of sick time each year but it did not roll over from one year to the next. Yes there were a few deadbeats who felt the need to use all their sick time (use it or lose it was their motto), but those people never got promotions or raises and were perceived poorly by their co-workers. Most of them didn't last long or were shifted to the worst jobs. The majority of people didn't abuse it.
Were they deadbeats or did they have chronic illnesses or have kids who were sick?
I've worked in places where people were the opposite. If you came in sniffling, you got the stink-eye. One fellow kept Lysol in his desk and only half-jokingly threatened to spray any sickie who came near. Over the top, but he had a point.
The county is in fact in terrible shape, I know the county police don't pay anyting into their pension system not sure about the non-police county workers.
Most employees contribute 4 to 8% into there retirement system, even NY State employees are now required to contribute 3%. Too late to do anyting now but the county should negotiate this on the next contracts.
2000 cops are not bankrupting one of the richest counties in the nation with 1.7 million residents.
Sounds like someone has some sour grapes.
Btw all new hires pay into their pension through tier 5
It has nothing to do with the county its a state pension.
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