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1. It sounds as if you agree the reputation and performance of of HHS has gone downhill: "Drugs, gangs, and shootings have not diminished #3's performance, the influx of poor uneducated immigrant families has. "
Yes, I agree - the generic test scores have gone downhill as a more diverse student body has been forced upon the district by the ToH's housing policies and lack of code enforcement. The performance of #3's honors, AP, and extracurricular activities are just as strong as they were 10-15 years ago.
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2. Is your argument that because John Glenn (elwood) has a poverty level less than half that of HHS and WWHS (your stats FYI) it is a lesser school? : "HHS has 313 students per grade with a poverty level of 6-15.9%. WWHS has 460 with a poverty level of 6-15.9%. John Glenn has 208 with a poverty level of 0-5.9%. WWHS and HHS also have a significantly lower student-to-teacher ratio at 12-1 vs. John Glenn's 17-1."
No. My argument is that the 3 schools have very different types of student bodies. Elwood is smaller and more homogenous socioeconomically and WWHS an HHS are considerably larger and more diverse. Obviously, a school with a higher level of poverty is going to have lower test scores.
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4. Is this in support of my point that Elwood is far and away a beter choice than Huntington?: "The Jack Abrams School has also been closed for 2 years now." (FYI this is the school closed because of it proximity to drug related murders and random gunfire).
No, it's not. The school has been closed for 2 years now. Children no longer go to school in that neighborhood, so the issue is null.
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3. Elwood's unsuccessful search for consolidation has been very much in the headlines.
I never said it wasn't, but you seemed unaware of this fact in your post. You asserted that buying a home in Elwood was a "no brainer." Isn't it important to consider that this district is not in great shape financially and might cease to exist in a year or two? It will not merge with one of the superior neighboring districts like Harborfields. It will likely merge with South Huntington (an inferior district). This is coupled with its lack of extracurricular and academic programs is something for the OP to consider. It's not a "no brainer."
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4. Before you dismiss the importance of test scores to a district's reputation and achievements (!) take a look at the gap between Elwood and HHS recently released test scores (7 and 8 ELA and Math) - it is not even close.
I'm not dismissing the importance of test scores, I'm saying they have to be viewed in the proper perspective with all the appropriate data. A 13-year-old from a middle-class professional family who's parents check his homework every night and expect him to get into a good college is obviously going to do better on math and ELA exams than a 13-year-old who is on food stamps and whose parents are illiterate and may have very little interest in his education. #3 and #13 are have populations of both types of students and the test scores are going to reflect this.
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5. I never suggested your assertion: "Not all of them are gang members and drug dealers."
Fair enough, but you did say that #3's "slide" was due to "drug and gang-induced violent crime in Huntington Station" and that "it is the criminality and NOT the diversity that has contributed to the diminished reputation of Huntington." Gangs have not hurt Huntington's test scores. The changing demographics I explained above have. It's the diversity not the criminality.
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6. I do disagree with this statement: "Districts #3 and #13 do still maintain "stellar" reputations among households that are serious about their children's educations." An incredible amount (NOT ALL) of Huntington and South Huntington residents who are serious about their children's educations send their children to the filled-to-capacity St. Anthony's High School (grades 9-12, 2500 students) in South Huntingon. St Patricks' elementary school in Huntington is itself overflowing at the seams at a time when the other Catholic elementary schools on Long Island are closing/hurting. This is not a coincidence. AND I AM NOT SAYING THERE ARE NOT SUPPORTIVE PARENTS, EXCELLENT STUDENTS, AND WONDERFUL PROGRAMS AT HHS.
7. I sounds like you are a fan of Huntington High School - I am too and I remember its old reputation quite well.
I actually live in #13. I just think both districts get a bad rep. An incredible amount if people in Huntington also sent their kids to St. Pats, St. Anthony's, and other private and parochial schools 10, 20, 30 years ago. It's an affluent community and many households can afford to choose that option if they want. Most still use the public schools though. If there has been a recent increase in private enrollment, I agree with you, it's probably due to the Jack Abrams issues and a fear if the new demographics. It's up to parents to decide if they want their children to be exposed to that kind of diversity, whether by sending their kids to private school or buying in a more homogeneous district. I'm pretty sure HHS's Yale bound valedictorian's parents are pretty satisfied with their daughter's education in #3. As Elke wisely said, it's up to the parents to decide that THEIR needs are.
All that said, my kids all went/go to private school. My oldest son also went to private school when we lived in Lloyd Harbor.
I actually live in #13. I just think both districts get a bad rep. An incredible amount if people in Huntington also sent their kids to St. Pats, St. Anthony's, and other private and parochial schools 10, 20, 30 years ago. It's an affluent community and many households can afford to choose that option if they want. Most still use the public schools though. If there has been a recent increase in private enrollment, I agree with you, it's probably due to the Jack Abrams issues and a fear if the new demographics. It's up to parents to decide if they want their children to be exposed to that kind of diversity, whether by sending their kids to private school or buying in a more homogeneous district. I'm pretty sure HHS's Yale bound valedictorian's parents are pretty satisfied with their daughter's education in #3. As Elke wisely said, it's up to the parents to decide that THEIR needs are.
1. St Anthony's was in Smithtown 20 years ago, FYI and was a very small school. Now it has 2500 kids.Holy Family had the misfortune of trying to stay open while Huntington's reputation was still stable.
2. St Patrick's almost closed 15 years ago due to low enrollment HHS's declining reputation saved it.
3. St. Anthony's is now exploding at the seams
4. I never asserted there were no excellent parents and students in Huntington. In fact I noted this in ALL CAPS for easy reading. Of course, Elwood has the far superior reputation in answer to the OP's question.
5. Your suggestion that Elwood might someday merge with South Hunitington and thus diminsh its reputaion actually makes my point about Elwood's reputation (v South Huntington). This is not to say the complicated merger with a particular district will ever occur in any case.
6. I never suggested "MOST" parents use non-public schools so I agree with your assertion that most of the families across HHS use the public schools. MANY more parent now use the non-public schools - and for obvious reasons.
7. There are certainly LLoyd Harbor parents who don't use the public school. I never suggested there were not. Heck there are Syosset parents who don't use the public school. This has nothing to do with the incredible number of HHS parent who don't use the public school.
8. I think you are pointing to exceptions, (HHS student to Yale, your Lloyd Harbor Experience) and downplaying recent trends (test scores, gang violence, kids to nonpublic schools) in an attempt to deny the general downward trend in performance and reputation at Huntington High School.
9. It goes without saying (I would hope) that parents decide what school to send their kids to. That is in Syosset, CSH or HHS.
1. St Anthony's was in Smithtown 20 years ago, FYI and was a very small school. Now it has 2500 kids.Holy Family had the misfortune of trying to stay open while Huntington's reputation was still stable.
I think you're mistaken about this. My brother went to St. Anthony's from 1987-1991, so it's been in its current location on Wolf Hill Rd in S. Huntington for at least that long.
I think you're mistaken about this. My brother went to St. Anthony's from 1987-1991, so it's been in its current location on Wolf Hill Rd in S. Huntington for at least that long.
On December 5, 1983, Most Reverend John R. McGann announced that, as part of extensive changes in the educational plans of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Rockville Centre, Holy Family Diocesan High School, South Huntington, New York, would close in June 1984, and St. Anthony’s High School will re-locate in the Holy Family facility. The two schools were athletic rivals and were forced to blend into one school.[2]
On December 5, 1983, Most Reverend John R. McGann announced that, as part of extensive changes in the educational plans of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Rockville Centre, Holy Family Diocesan High School, South Huntington, New York, would close in June 1984, and St. Anthony’s High School will re-locate in the Holy Family facility. The two schools were athletic rivals and were forced to blend into one school.[2]
Right, so you were mistaken. St. Anthony's wasn't in Smithtown 20 years ago. It's been in S. Huntington for as long as I can remember.
Right, so you were mistaken. St. Anthony's wasn't in Smithtown 20 years ago. It's been in S. Huntington for as long as I can remember.
When you get to be my age you clearly remember the day when St Anthony's was a smallish all boys school in Smithtown (think of a small Chaminade - of course that was smaller too) and folks like John Gregorek (and the black wave) were dominating Sunken Meadow and Gus Alfieri was the king of basketball. I was one of the many many boys who went through All American basketball camp on their Smithtown campus back in the day. It seems like just yesterday - turns out it was close to 30 years ago they took over the South Huntington Holy Family campus (you ever heard of that school?), accepted girls, and now look at them - 2500 kids!!! Boys and girls!! Exploding enrollment! Good at football! Whoda thunk it!?
1. St Anthony's was in Smithtown 20 years ago, FYI and was a very small school. Now it has 2500 kids.Holy Family had the misfortune of trying to stay open while Huntington's reputation was still stable.
St. Anthony's moved to S. Huntington in 1984. 28 years ago.
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2. St Patrick's almost closed 15 years ago due to low enrollment HHS's declining reputation saved it.
I'm not aware that St. Pats almost closed in 1997. I am aware that the the school constructed a massive extension in the late 90s nearly doubling its physical space. That would be about the same time you're claiming the school was threatened with closure, so I can't reconcile why it would undertake such a large building project.
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3. St. Anthony's is now exploding at the seams
I agree, enrollment is up at St. Anthony's (which matriculates students from across Long Island). Looking at the data on schooldigger for 2010-2011, enrollment is also up at Kellenberg, St. Doms, Our Lady of Mercy, and St. John Baptist HS.
Enrollment is down at the very expensive private schools like Portledge and Friends. I would venture a guess (supported by some unscientific word-of-mouth) that many former private schoolers have transferred to the less expensive parochial schools during the recession. I also don't disagree that parents have pulled their children out of #3 in recent years due to the changing demographics (also supported by some unscientific word-of-mouth). Most parents haven't and there is still a level of academic excellence found at HHS. There was a similar trend in the late 80s and early 90s when there was also gang activity - not only outside in H. Station, but in the schools themselves (S.I.B.).
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4. I never asserted there were no excellent parents and students in Huntington. In fact I noted this in ALL CAPS for easy reading. Of course, Elwood has the far superior reputation in answer to the OP's question.
5. Your suggestion that Elwood might someday merge with South Hunitington and thus diminsh its reputaion actually makes my point about Elwood's reputation (v South Huntington). This is not to say the complicated merger with a particular district will ever occur in any case.
You're missing my point, so perhaps I explained it poorly. I'm not denying Elwood has higher test scores and a better reputation than #3 and #13. I took issue with your "no brainer" comment. IMO, if you just blindly look at test scores, yes, its a "no brainer" (in the literal sense that you're not using your brain). If you look at the whole picture, the issue becomes more complicated. The two most important issues are:
1) There's a very good chance the small homogeneous lily white middle class Elwood SD might not exist in a couple years and will likely merge with a much the much more diverse S. Huntington District. That has to be considered.
2) #3 and #13's generic test scores are pulled down by a large immigrant and working class population. If you don't want your kids going to school with these kids, that's your call and I won't judge you for it. They will also be going to school with kids from Wincoma, H. Bay, Halesite, West Hills, Cold Spring Hills, etc. They will have a larger number of academic programs, technology, and extracurriculars available to them. These districts get bad reps.
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8. I think you are pointing to exceptions, (HHS student to Yale, your Lloyd Harbor Experience) and downplaying recent trends (test scores, gang violence, kids to nonpublic schools) in an attempt to deny the general downward trend in performance and reputation at Huntington High School.
- 96 seniors (aprox. 35.55 %) took one or more Advanced Placement exams.
- $12,849,554 in college scholarship money
- The seniors were accepted by many of the top colleges and universities in the country including Columbia, Princeton, Cornell, Harvard and Yale, as well as New York University, Vanderbilt, Boston College, Northwestern, Georgetown, Fordham, Boston University, Colgate, Rutgers, James Madison, Univ. of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, Villanova, Penn State, Ohio State, Maryland, Syracuse, Indiana, Arizona State, School of Visual Arts, Maryland Institute College of Art, Berklee College of Music, Carnegie Mellon, The Citadel, Case Western Reserve and Vassar.
Nearly 36% enrollment in AP classes, nearly 13 million in scholarship money, and an impressive list of college acceptance that includes 5/8 of the ivies for a class of approximately 270. That's not bad, and certainly suggests test scores and media stories don't paint a full picture about the district.
Right, so you were mistaken. St. Anthony's wasn't in Smithtown 20 years ago. It's been in S. Huntington for as long as I can remember.
Now I feel old too. One of my college friends was in the very first class of girls to graduate from St. Anthony's. She was boy crazy and loved her switch from Holy Family, LOL.
I grew up in Huntington, had all my sacraments at St. Pat's and was looking for houses there in the mid-late 1990s....St. Patrick's was most assuredly never in any danger of closing back then - and won't be in that danger any time in the near future either. (My parents contributed to the campaign that h-tonian refers to).
St. Anthony's moved to S. Huntington in 1984. 28 years ago.
I'm not aware that St. Pats almost closed in 1997. I am aware that the the school constructed a massive extension in the late 90s nearly doubling its physical space. That would be about the same time you're claiming the school was threatened with closure, so I can't reconcile why it would undertake such a large building project.
I agree, enrollment is up at St. Anthony's (which matriculates students from across Long Island). Looking at the data on schooldigger for 2010-2011, enrollment is also up at Kellenberg, St. Doms, Our Lady of Mercy, and St. John Baptist HS.
Enrollment is down at the very expensive private schools like Portledge and Friends. I would venture a guess (supported by some unscientific word-of-mouth) that many former private schoolers have transferred to the less expensive parochial schools during the recession. I also don't disagree that parents have pulled their children out of #3 in recent years due to the changing demographics (also supported by some unscientific word-of-mouth). Most parents haven't and there is still a level of academic excellence found at HHS. There was a similar trend in the late 80s and early 90s when there was also gang activity - not only outside in H. Station, but in the schools themselves (S.I.B.).
You're missing my point, so perhaps I explained it poorly. I'm not denying Elwood has higher test scores and a better reputation than #3 and #13. I took issue with your "no brainer" comment. IMO, if you just blindly look at test scores, yes, its a "no brainer" (in the literal sense that you're not using your brain). If you look at the whole picture, the issue becomes more complicated. The two most important issues are:
1) There's a very good chance the small homogeneous lily white middle class Elwood SD might not exist in a couple years and will likely merge with a much the much more diverse S. Huntington District. That has to be considered.
2) #3 and #13's generic test scores are pulled down by a large immigrant and working class population. If you don't want your kids going to school with these kids, that's your call and I won't judge you for it. They will also be going to school with kids from Wincoma, H. Bay, Halesite, West Hills, Cold Spring Hills, etc. They will have a larger number of academic programs, technology, and extracurriculars available to them. These districts get bad reps.
- 96 seniors (aprox. 35.55 %) took one or more Advanced Placement exams.
- $12,849,554 in college scholarship money
- The seniors were accepted by many of the top colleges and universities in the country including Columbia, Princeton, Cornell, Harvard and Yale, as well as New York University, Vanderbilt, Boston College, Northwestern, Georgetown, Fordham, Boston University, Colgate, Rutgers, James Madison, Univ. of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, Villanova, Penn State, Ohio State, Maryland, Syracuse, Indiana, Arizona State, School of Visual Arts, Maryland Institute College of Art, Berklee College of Music, Carnegie Mellon, The Citadel, Case Western Reserve and Vassar.
Nearly 36% enrollment in AP classes, nearly 13 million in scholarship money, and an impressive list of college acceptance that includes 5/8 of the ivies for a class of approximately 270. That's not bad, and certainly suggests test scores and media stories don't paint a full picture about the district.
Great points about the great students attending Huntington High School. Nobody has ever sugested there were not some super student and involved parents there but you really paint a fuller picture of their accomplishments. They are to be commended. I am sure the stories across Long Island - even at other school districts facing great challenges, are similar.
And a point well taken about the fulll-to capacity St Pat's and St Anthony's. I thougt the other Catholic elementary schools had difficulty with enrollment based on several Newday articles this year and I had no idea the other high schools you noted had increased in size at the same rate and quantitity as St Anthony's. And of course I thought Saint Anthony's moved to Holy Family's campus 20 years ago and it was nearly 28 years ago.
Nevertheless, Elwood's reputation is, and I'll grant you it may be based on skewed test scores and irrational fears of Hunitington Station crime and ignorance of the accomplishments of some of the students, definitely above that of HHS and SHHS. I think that was the original OP question and I'll grant that some Huntington howmeowners and realtors think this reflects the public's general perception of the three districts but is very very unfair and inaccurate.
St. Anthony's High School is an incredible school.
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