What 'right to work' would do for NY? (Oyster Bay, Union: vacation home, layoffs)

[Pruzhany]

Except for State, City and Fed employees Right to Work are Right to Fire states w/o cause. Unions have numerous positive things that people don't look at but in the same breath some Unions tend to choke business to a point where it can put a business under or to leave an area. I'm not going to bash Unions because they are not all the same. But I'll give a positve reason for Unions. In one of my past lives I was in a Union. There was a period of time that there was not enough union labor to go around and unemployment just didn't to it. I contacted my rep about taking non-union jobs and he said it was okay as long I paid my dues. I thought why should I pay dues if I'm not on a union job, but I paid them. A few years later I got sick,wasn't sick enough to be in a hospital and was too sick to work. As many people know we all have copayments with medical insurance and we all in some way have disability insurance. But none of it gives home assistance. Thanks to my payment of union dues I had no copayments had a income to live on and had a person who visited me daily to deal with my basic needs. Now I'm numerous years later in a completely different field where the income is excellent. But when those small things come up I wish I had the additional benefits that a Union had given me.

[OhBeeHave]

Originally Posted by Interlude

The full time employees of that supermarket organized and contracted with management for certain rights and benefits. Who are you that you think the rules shouldn't apply? Go work someplace else if you don't like it.

Please tell me all of the options 16 year-olds (I started at 15 and turned 16 during the temp job) had in 1980 when employers were held to NYS law concerning working papers? Couple that with being too young to drive and relying on rides.

Your other post is anecdotal at best and more like pure speculation. Yes, OSHA and the NYS Labor Law set safety standards, but union shops are far more likely to implement them as opposed to fly by night operations that, when workers are injured and sue, will just go out of business and reopen under another name.

Says you. I am a non union corporation. I cant simply fold up as your anecdotal response would imply. Oh, when the union guys get furloughed, who do you think they want to work for? And they want to be paid cash to circumvent the UI system. I refuse to hire them and be party to their fraud.

And you've entirely failed to address the main point, which is that union workers earn far more than their non-union counterparts, even in the private sector. Ergo, the idea that only public sector employees benefit from unions is laughable.

The point for me is that unions can be abusive. If I recall correctly, the concept of the law was that an employee has the right to choose not to join a union. My example of a case in point was that teenagers working PT in a supermarket -- who aren't making a career out of it -- should have the right to work free of a union.

[NYMike722]

During discussions such as these I am reminded of the quote "I can hire one half of the working class to kill the other half."

[Galicia#1]

Another great quote by FDR "if I were to work in a factory, the first thing I would do is join a union". The reason so many are anti-union has much to do with teachers and administrators salaries. The thing is many of those offended by the salaries would also be offended if their children and children of neighboring towns (perhaps diverse towns) shared classrooms. Another big problem is all the nuts that fear for their safety and demand more and more police. As the years have gone on the tier system in unions have taken away many of the perks that were previously mentioned. The baby boomers parents were given everything being the greatest generation after all and since then things have been taken away contract after contract. Not only do I contribute to my pension but, my benefits are slowly being taken away and I am made to contribute towards prescription coverage 1400$ a year.

Some here will claim unions are what is wrong with this country and then in the next breath state how they wouldn't work for so little outdoors during the coldest and hottest days of the year. Others say you must make 200k to have a family on LI but, union employees are paid far too much. Then you have some gloating about their weekend/vacation home but, refuse to compensate their employees to prevailing wage or give health benefits.

I have to say I was extremely lucky to this point. Started at 18 making 70$ a day, worked hard and learned my trade. When I was non union my employer for the last 5 years I worked for him , gave me a company cell, company vehicle to go home with , use of tools for my own jobs and I took home 1000/week after taxes. One thing I do miss since going union is my Xmas bonus of 2gs.

[Interlude]

^^ Good points. Here's an article on the "right-to-work" movement from that bastion of leftist propaganda, Forbes magazine.

'Right-to-Work' Laws Explained, Debunked And Demystified - Forbes

If you are anti-union, the path to right-to-work laws is certainly one you will wish to follow.

However, if you imagine that your support is the result of a righteous belief that American workers are, somehow, being denied choices in the workplace and that this grievance requires redress, you are fooling yourself.

You can support these laws if you believe that lessening the collective bargaining power of workers will bring business to your state or that lower paying jobs is, somehow, in the interest of the nation—despite almost two generations of declining growth in worker wages in the face of skyrocketing executive compensation.

You can support these laws if you feel that it is appropriate, and in the best traditions of the nation, to win elections by denying Democrats critical funding at the very time when the Supreme Court has dramatically boosted the ability of Republicans to add millions to their campaign efforts.

However, if your concern is for fairness in the workplace, don’t be fooled.

While you may argue that having a job is better than not having a job—no matter how low or unfair the wage paid for that job maybe—right-to-work laws are not designed to do anything to improve the lot of the American worker. At best, they may result in a few low-paying businesses moving into your state should your GOP controlled state government jump on the right-to-work bandwagon.

But, in the long run, it is a pretty reasonable bet that all working Americans will suffer as a result.

Originally Posted by OhBeeHave

Please tell me all of the options 16 year-olds (I started at 15 and turned 16 during the temp job) had in 1980 when employers were held to NYS law concerning working papers? Couple that with being too young to drive and relying on rides.

So because you're still butthurt over being docked a few scheckles when you were 16, we should neuter the collective bargaining rights of the middle class and depress worker rights, benefits and wages. Gotcha.

Says you. I am a non union corporation. I cant simply fold up as your anecdotal response would imply. Oh, when the union guys get furloughed, who do you think they want to work for? And they want to be paid cash to circumvent the UI system. I refuse to hire them and be party to their fraud.

You running a non-union shop pretty much disqualifies you from opining on the value of unions, since they are directly opposed to your interests. Union-busting only benefits business owners.

The point for me is that unions can be abusive. If I recall correctly, the concept of the law was that an employee has the right to choose not to join a union. My example of a case in point was that teenagers working PT in a supermarket -- who aren't making a career out of it -- should have the right to work free of a union.

Employers can also be abusive. That's why a healthy balance between unions and management is ideal, as opposed to one side gaining too much power. Your personal experience, while negative to you, does not justify right-to-work laws.

[VA Yankee]

Originally Posted by Interlude

Someone in the thread about that made the point, more eloquently than I could, that line work is extremely dangerous and more complex than you would think. Ensuring that properly trained linemen were doing this work (and union membership is the only way to do so efficiently) helps prevent opportunists from screwing things up. In any event that particular problem seems to have been rather blown out of proportion by the usual union bashers.

Thats a fallacy probally more bs from the union handbook! Your statements says only a union membership certifies that a lineman is qualified iaw practice and procedure what a crock of ...

Based on that statement I guess every lineman in Virginia who works for Dominion, the state wide company serviing all of us is unqualified.....

[I_Love_LI_but]

Originally Posted by VA Yankee

Thats a fallacy probally more bs from the union handbook! Your statements says only a union membership certifies that a lineman is qualified iaw practice and procedure what a crock of ...

Based on that statement I guess every lineman in Virginia who works for Dominion, the state wide company serviing all of us is unqualified.....

That's right. Unless the Mafia says they're qualified, they aren't.

[Interlude]

Originally Posted by VA Yankee

Thats a fallacy probally more bs from the union handbook! Your statements says only a union membership certifies that a lineman is qualified iaw practice and procedure what a crock of ...

Based on that statement I guess every lineman in Virginia who works for Dominion, the state wide company serviing all of us is unqualified.....

Yay, another "union handbook" post from this rabble. If you want to make a point, go ahead and do so, but your dumb quips aren't proving anything.

As I said, that point was made by another person in another thread. Go read it if you care enough about it. The thought was that union membership was the only quick way to certify that the workers had the proper skills - you can't exactly run them through a trial period to make sure in an emergency situation.

Or do you not think that unqualified people show up to "help" in disaster situations with the real intent of soaking up funds for their shoddy work? As a former resident of New Orleans, I can assure you, there are a lot of scumbags out there doing exactly that.

[VA Yankee]

Originally Posted by Interlude

Yay, another "union handbook" post from this rabble. If you want to make a point, go ahead and do so, but your dumb quips aren't proving anything.

As I said, that point was made by another person in another thread. Go read it if you care enough about it. The thought was that union membership was the only quick way to certify that the workers had the proper skills - you can't exactly run them through a trial period to make sure in an emergency situation.

Or do you not think that unqualified people show up to "help" in disaster situations with the real intent of soaking up funds for their shoddy work? As a former resident of New Orleans, I can assure you, there are a lot of scumbags out there doing exactly that.

No not rabble, but to make a quote (paraphrased) that the "union membership" certifies ability is a real crock, that is my point.

I think, as I have observed when weather disasters have struck here that the lineman from other power companies are more than qualified in the practises and procedures for repairing/restoring damaged power lines. It is also the practise of Dominion Power to have one of their lineman with each out of state team to ensure that anything unique to what Dominion wants is carried out.

If unqualified people are being secured by a utility company then that company has serious problems and should be held accountable. I won't argue that their are plenty of unqualified schmucks running around and taking advantage of homeowners. Homeowners should ensure licensure and insurance before hiring anyone but in an emergency you don't always follow your instincts.

[Interlude]

All well and good, but union obstruction was pretty low on the list of things to complain about post-Sandy.

Do you have a copy of the union playbook you can send me?