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Wow, pretty magnanimous for someone without a clue. Not sure how "effeminate" and "hipster" relate in any way. I know plenty of hipsters who would smash your face and crush their over priced Pabst Blue Ribbon can on your head. San Fran is definitely NOT hipster, it is politically correct and anti-scene. Hipsters go to mom and pop or trendy coffee shops, not Starbucks. Starbucks is a corporate behemoth. The opposite of hipster. Regardless, not sure why I am defending it. I used the word exactly ONCE in the same sentence as "business expansion", "housing options" and a bunch of other remedies. The problem is the "trash" (as you call them) from the rest of America still wants to move into Manhattan. They no longer however, want to eventually move to LI. Once again, Starbucks does not equal hipster. Starbucks = The Gap.
Hipster = young, professional, upwardly mobile, creative artisan crowd who tend to move into economically challenged (usually ethnic) communities and help gentrify them. Big emphasis on small, local, sustainable businesses and community entrepreneurship. LI can use this in spades.
The East Side access is a silly boondoggle that as usual slaps a band aid (a nice expensive one) on the problem. It may help relieve some of the commuting hassles going to the city, but it will not incentivize business to open on the island at all. In fact, we will just pay to subsidize Manhattan jobs with increased fares, MTA fees, parking permits, etc. It's an overall good thing, but it's so many years and dollars for modest reward and silly politico photo ops. Hopefully it leads to more LIRR based development on the Island side at local stations and hubs and not just another expensive and inefficient line to midtown, but I'm not holding my breath.
Struck a nerve about the hipster part. Sorry, there is no difference if it you can't understand it. Hipsters are effeminate. Anyone that has to claim to belong to some group usually comes from a background or family life of failure. All those hipsters are totally PC and all about inclusion yet they never contribute to the local places they live in. This is the same trash that comes to New York and then thinks they are New Yorkers yet you can tell they are utter Posers.
Then what, have him/her stay on LI to play in a crappy blues or cover band? Noooo! Let them go!
SB is the only school worth commuting to on LI. We could really use another SUNY branch to attract some young people. Particularly in Nassau. I don't see the 3rd rail siphoning off jobs from NYC unless there is a big tech push and wages jump to keep pace. That aint happening.
SUNY Old Westbury and Farmingdale need to step up. Our counties need to look at the talent our universities produce and lure companies in those fields. Calverton would be great for a tech/research incubator or corridor. Create a rental village around it, with affordable apartments for young employees to help them save for a house. Seeds have to be sown in good soil...right now we're looking at depleted earth.
I haven't lived in many parts of the US. My limited observation of hipsters in Brooklyn and Portland led me to believe that they cannot drive the economic engine of a community, much less so an entire region. In Brooklyn many of the true hipsters (and not yuppies dressing up like them) are being pushed out to Bushwick. IMO circumstances, and not people, drive economic growth although there are many things people can do to lessen the pain when circumstances become unfavorable. And it is the circumstances that are happening in NYC that are the main cause of LI's problems; curiously these are also the same problems evidenced in the surrounding counties.
LI colleges and universities other than SBU may not have a major national reputation, but they are collectively still more competitive than what other regions surrounding NYC have to offer and it's still a pain to commute from Westchester/Putnum to Princeton and New Brunswick. With the GC connection, that may now be accessible to families in the northern suburbs but it is still up to LI to come up with the right package and market it properly.
Struck a nerve about the hipster part. Sorry, there is no difference if it you can't understand it. Hipsters are effeminate. Anyone that has to claim to belong to some group usually comes from a background or family life of failure. All those hipsters are totally PC and all about inclusion yet they never contribute to the local places they live in. This is the same trash that comes to New York and then thinks they are New Yorkers yet you can tell they are utter Posers.
Didn't strike a nerve. You're not that clever. Your post(s) speak for themselves. I'll let others judge your stellar grasp of the conversation.
Are you sure you're not thinking of "hippies?" Not the same thing as hipsters at all. How old are you? Did you do a lot of acid in the 60's or were you a narc? Like, far out, dude! Hipsters hate hippies too. Hipsters hate most things! Hippies love things. You need a trip to Williamsburg, man. Get a taco and look at tattooed chicks.
No one comes to NY to be "poseurs" anymore. There are other cool places in the world. If they can afford NYC, they can be any way they want. No one cares.
I haven't lived in many parts of the US. My limited observation of hipsters in Brooklyn and Portland led me to believe that they cannot drive the economic engine of a community, much less so an entire region. In Brooklyn many of the true hipsters (and not yuppies dressing up like them) are being pushed out to Bushwick. IMO circumstances, and not people, drive economic growth although there are many things people can do to lessen the pain when circumstances become unfavorable. And it is the circumstances that are happening in NYC that are the main cause of LI's problems; curiously these are also the same problems evidenced in the surrounding counties.
LI colleges and universities other than SBU may not have a major national reputation, but they are collectively still more competitive than what other regions surrounding NYC have to offer and it's still a pain to commute from Westchester/Putnum to Princeton and New Brunswick. With the GC connection, that may now be accessible to families in the northern suburbs but it is still up to LI to come up with the right package and market it properly.
Case in point, Bushwick is going through massive gentrification. Condo development, skyrocketing rents and housing prices. It's still a dump, don't get me wrong but 10 more years and continued squeezing of the projects (which keeps it nasty) and Bushwick will be a popular neighborhood.
When I came back to NY a real estate agent tried to show me a loft in Bushwick and kept calling it "East Williamsburg." LOL. I said "dude, I'm coming back from Texas but I'm from Brooklyn. This is Bushwick!" He said "well, we call it E. Williamsburg now." That was 13 years ago. Have to hand it to realtors. So creative. Truth is, it pretty much IS East Williamsburg now because as you say, the hipster/yupsters are already priced out of Billyburg.
SUNY Old Westbury and Farmingdale need to step up. Our counties need to look at the talent our universities produce and lure companies in those fields. Calverton would be great for a tech/research incubator or corridor. Create a rental village around it, with affordable apartments for young employees to help them save for a house. Seeds have to be sown in good soil...right now we're looking at depleted earth.
I loved Long Island for 20 of the 25 years we lived there. I loved the fact that it was near Manhatten, near decent airports, could earn a very very decent living and it was the place where we achieved the american dream.
However, the last 5 years were grueling. We got tired of the hustle and bustle. Tired of the anger of people, very tired of the fact that to get ahead it was thru who you knew, and we didnt really know anyone as we are immigrants. Very tired of the complaining and the everyone out for themselves So after having a business where we employed at the height, 15 people, we downsized and eventually sold. We sold rental properties that had been trashed by tenants and had the copper ripped out. I am not saying everythign on Long Island is bad ; we did make some very very good friends that we miss daily.
7 months later we are relaxing, not stressed, taking life at a different pace and enjoying it. My kids are so so happy in school and yesterday said they would never go back to Long Island. Their school friends are so down to earth, so helpful and they are having fun at school while mainting their grades and playing sports. I am working full time ; yes, the paycheck is smaller, but the stress is gone, the co workers are decent people always there to help. My dh is a stay at home day and liking the fact that he does not have to work 50 hours a week but doing honey do jobs.
The big difference here is not the cost of living ; yes, thats lower. But the people here respect eachother and help eachother out. That is a huge difference. After all, we all take the same things with us when we go 6 feet under.
How do you think your formerly living on Long Island affected your ability to live the way you do in your new location now? For instance, if you DIDN'T make a profit on your property (even though it was trashed) sold on LI, would you have been able to have the lifestyle you do now (waited a long time to get a job in the new location and travelled instead, house in new location with no mortgage, able to take a low-stress job not needing to make a certain amount of money, able to have one spouse totally unemployed)? What do you think your life would be like there now if you hadn't lived on and owned property on Long Island first?
Here is one of my favorite CD posts of all time on this subject:
How do you think your formerly living on Long Island affected your ability to live the way you do in your new location now? For instance, if you DIDN'T make a profit on your property (even though it was trashed) sold on LI, would you have been able to have the lifestyle you do now (waited a long time to get a job in the new location and travelled instead, house in new location with no mortgage, able to take a low-stress job not needing to make a certain amount of money, able to have one spouse totally unemployed)? What do you think your life would be like there now if you hadn't lived on and owned property on Long Island first?
Here is one of my favorite CD posts of all time on this subject:
That's a good one, ILLLB and of course SSSS and I are two of the more rational shmoes on here (and good looking too). However that post and Sean's premise was really directed at ex-pats who bought early and cashed in but still come back to complain. To me, they are the ones who left the barn door open and the ones who have bought in the last 10 years have to fix the whole damn farm.
Those places down south have grown up alot in 10 years while we have been taking a bath. Building wealth is no longer inherent in NY. The playing field has leveled. If you can make $75k in NY now, you can make it in many other places that don't have the systemic wallet pilfering that LI has. I wish it weren't so. Hopefully prices come back. Just such a headwind against it with the tax burden and layers of hackery. sigh........whatever.
Case in point, Bushwick is going through massive gentrification. Condo development, skyrocketing rents and housing prices. It's still a dump, don't get me wrong but 10 more years and continued squeezing of the projects (which keeps it nasty) and Bushwick will be a popular neighborhood.
When I came back to NY a real estate agent tried to show me a loft in Bushwick and kept calling it "East Williamsburg." LOL. I said "dude, I'm coming back from Texas but I'm from Brooklyn. This is Bushwick!" He said "well, we call it E. Williamsburg now." That was 13 years ago. Have to hand it to realtors. So creative. Truth is, it pretty much IS East Williamsburg now because as you say, the hipster/yupsters are already priced out of Billyburg.
Over the past 10 years, Bloomberg made a big real estate play across the boroughs. I think the pressure to develop was already there and he just had to open the gates. Brooklyn was the first to benefit because of proximity, a more comprehensive subway system (the best outside Manhattan) and generally less resistance from meeker local NIMBYs vs. Queens and Staten. Bushwick is benefiting from the spillover. Harlem and now, Melrose, are experiencing a similar development driven by the same demand forces and neither are hipster magnets. If LI wants to make a real estate play from the same forces at this point it would have to be from the spillover of the spillover of the spillover of the boroughs or at some point when yuppies are willing to take commuter rail.
Over the past 10 years, Bloomberg made a big real estate play across the boroughs. I think the pressure to develop was already there and he just had to open the gates. Brooklyn was the first to benefit because of proximity, a more comprehensive subway system (the best outside Manhattan) and generally less resistance from meeker local NIMBYs vs. Queens and Staten. Bushwick is benefiting from the spillover. Harlem and now, Melrose, are experiencing a similar development driven by the same demand forces and neither are hipster magnets. If LI wants to make a real estate play from the same forces at this point it would have to be from the spillover of the spillover of the spillover of the boroughs.
We generally agree FHD. Coney Island is another one. Giuliani started starving out the housing projects and knocking down the dilapidated buildings a little at a time and Bloomberg has gone full force on it. With the housing projects they can't kick people out but they don't fill units when someone leaves and the building deteriorates. Coney Island will attract hipsters but the real growth will come from the Russians.
I agree that the spillover is the major draw for Bushwick but LI would need a different strategy and it obviously would never involve the rate of change Brokklyn can handle. The whole "commuter based housing," some new business investment, some easing of the giant thumb of govt, modernizing of the LIRR (plus 3rd rail) and maybe we could attract SOME youth. I don't even dream we could siphon it from the city but I optimistically think we can retain some local "hipsters" who bail out as soon as they can and maybe make a place for returniung graduates who left the island and want to return to be near family or just miss it. I'm not looking for another Williamsburg in RVC, just a few more RVCs and Huntingtons scattered around (to start).
EDIT: Move back to be near family but not have to live with them!
Last edited by mongoose65; 01-23-2013 at 01:20 PM..
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