Can we attract the same caliber of Police applicants for less money? (compensation, retiree)
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How many years have the 85-95k earners been working? Only 7 like in the NCPD to earn that kind of money, or 20 years?
I'm trying to learn here, so please be open to the fact that I have no knowledge as to how either groups pay schedule/raise schedule/benefits plan works.
I wish I had access to the 2007 TVCSD figures, but I have to settle for what's available.
I wish I had access to the PD 1999 figures so that I could at least compare them at the same period in time.
Trying to look over the figures, there is a teacher A.O. who came on new in '96 at $30.6K and was making $50.8K in 1999. She was listed as a Step 4 Level 8. (Does step = years? Does level = additional courses? I'm trying to learn the nuances.) As indicated in the spreadsheet, it was an increase of 65.69%. I have no idea as to what A.O. is making now -- that would be interesting to see (not to lynch her, not to do anything other than see how she has grown her career.) I doubt she has realized 65.69% increases every 4 years, but she has that level 8 so I can only guess that she is ambitious.
Another question I have is: do the cops hit a ceiling or cap for the base pay -- and then anything additional they have to make up in OT? What I am trying to determine is whether a PO's increases are limitless or if they reach top pay and that is it. (Barring whatever COLA they receive in their contracts and then OT.)
If the cops hit a cap on the max for their basepay, eliminate frivolous OT when possible. (Like when the SCPD was out guarding a sidestreet in St James for that show Extreme Makeover. The show should have been billed for using the SCPD as their guards and personal traffic control. It ticks me off that taxpayers have to pay for crap like that -- which there is plenty of.
I still feel that the POs should be paid OT on the big holidays -- Labor Day, Memorial Day, 4th July, Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Years. Even USPS Letter Carriers PTFs are paid extra for working (inside the PO and delivering Express Mail) on those days. (PTF = Part Time Flexible)
Also -- does either group have a mandatory retirement age? Some departments age out POs (CHP is one) but I have seen some teachers remain until 30 years. Is it mandatory they retire at 30?
There were two Step 30 teachers on the .pdf I provided. One is level 5, the other level 8. There difference in salary was $7K. I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but if I had the opportunity to do what it takes for that extra money I'd do it in a flash. And for those who do -- I can't say I blame them!
In an effort to try and return back to the topic -- If the base pay reaches a cap when the PO are at top pay, restrict OT whenever possible where the more senior officers are concerned. (Someone else wrote this earlier and I agree) As for starting salary -- keep it as is, however phase in the increases more gradually so that a PO doesn't make tops salary until say, 10 years. This way younger guys getting OT will make a living wage, their OT would be at a lower rate for longer as well.
As for the teachers -- if they don't have a mandatory retirement age, one should be enacted which would allow the salary level to be kept under better control. Young teachers come on to replace the retirees; the benefits to the retiree plus sal & ben to the new teacher (hopefully) would keep things more stable within the teacher salary portion of the school district budget. I'm not suggesting any cuts to pay or staff -- just putting teachers out to pasture within XX years.
Yet another question: It was discussed that the PD has the last 3 years for the retirement figure -- how does the teachers union handle that? Seeing as teachers can reach different levels of pay through extra credit courses, is that figured into their retirement, too?
This union stuff (any union not just the aforementioned two) is enough to make one's head spin.
I'm trying to learn here, so please be open to the fact that I have no knowledge as to how either groups pay schedule/raise schedule/benefits plan works.
I wish I had access to the 2007 TVCSD figures, but I have to settle for what's available.
I wish I had access to the PD 1999 figures so that I could at least compare them at the same period in time.
Trying to look over the figures, there is a teacher A.O. who came on new in '96 at $30.6K and was making $50.8K in 1999. She was listed as a Step 4 Level 8. (Does step = years? Does level = additional courses? I'm trying to learn the nuances.) As indicated in the spreadsheet, it was an increase of 65.69%. I have no idea as to what A.O. is making now -- that would be interesting to see (not to lynch her, not to do anything other than see how she has grown her career.) I doubt she has realized 65.69% increases every 4 years, but she has that level 8 so I can only guess that she is ambitious.
Another question I have is: do the cops hit a ceiling or cap for the base pay -- and then anything additional they have to make up in OT? What I am trying to determine is whether a PO's increases are limitless or if they reach top pay and that is it. (Barring whatever COLA they receive in their contracts and then OT.)
If the cops hit a cap on the max for their basepay, eliminate frivolous OT when possible. (Like when the SCPD was out guarding a sidestreet in St James for that show Extreme Makeover. The show should have been billed for using the SCPD as their guards and personal traffic control. It ticks me off that taxpayers have to pay for crap like that -- which there is plenty of.
I still feel that the POs should be paid OT on the big holidays -- Labor Day, Memorial Day, 4th July, Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Years. Even USPS Letter Carriers PTFs are paid extra for working (inside the PO and delivering Express Mail) on those days. (PTF = Part Time Flexible)
Also -- does either group have a mandatory retirement age? Some departments age out POs (CHP is one) but I have seen some teachers remain until 30 years. Is it mandatory they retire at 30?
There were two Step 30 teachers on the .pdf I provided. One is level 5, the other level 8. There difference in salary was $7K. I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but if I had the opportunity to do what it takes for that extra money I'd do it in a flash. And for those who do -- I can't say I blame them!
In an effort to try and return back to the topic -- If the base pay reaches a cap when the PO are at top pay, restrict OT whenever possible where the more senior officers are concerned. (Someone else wrote this earlier and I agree) As for starting salary -- keep it as is, however phase in the increases more gradually so that a PO doesn't make tops salary until say, 10 years. This way younger guys getting OT will make a living wage, their OT would be at a lower rate for longer as well.
As for the teachers -- if they don't have a mandatory retirement age, one should be enacted which would allow the salary level to be kept under better control. Young teachers come on to replace the retirees; the benefits to the retiree plus sal & ben to the new teacher (hopefully) would keep things more stable within the teacher salary portion of the school district budget. I'm not suggesting any cuts to pay or staff -- just putting teachers out to pasture within XX years.
Yet another question: It was discussed that the PD has the last 3 years for the retirement figure -- how does the teachers union handle that? Seeing as teachers can reach different levels of pay through extra credit courses, is that figured into their retirement, too?
This union stuff (any union not just the aforementioned two) is enough to make one's head spin.
Teachers retirement is also based on last 3 years.
Excellent news! The NYPD just got another raise, 17%+ by 2009. About time someone is looking out for these poor bastards. The reason for such a raise? Attract better qualified candidates and retention of veteran officers who are otherwise lured away from the NYPD by better paying departments. HURRAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I seriously hope no politician on LI agrees with this, and if they do, they should be voted out office as soon as possible.
I agree with a lot of what they say, but ...please ease up on the insults. I have relatives and friends on both NCPD and SCPD, and I can tell you that they are not goons. Are some guys on the force? Yes.
Last edited by nancy thereader; 08-25-2008 at 01:59 PM..
OK, don't faint now, but I agree. Enough is enough. The guys on the NYPD will be brought up to a living wage, the guys on NCPD and SCPD are already there.
Last edited by nancy thereader; 08-25-2008 at 02:00 PM..
Delaraba is a jerk using hyperbole that a lot of negotiators use...doesn't make it right. I'm sure some cops share is views, but not all.
In this economy, you have to question the decency of anybody trying to justify a raise for NCPD or SCPD, where one guy is making above the median household income after 5-7 years.
The other poster's response was hypothetical; no one was trying to justify anything. However we all know that the likes of Delaraba will use the NYPD raise as an example. No one is saying it is right.
The other poster's response was hypothetical; no one was trying to justify anything. However we all know that the likes of Delaraba will use the NYPD raise as an example. No one is saying it is right.
Yeah, I think he may have been indicating what he THINKS will happen, but no doubt the NYC raise will be used in the next round of contract talks,
No one is saying compensation should be adjusted to reflected home prices, that's as assinine as it is incorrect. What compensation should be adjusted for though is the taxes. Just like how GM reduced the total compensation of its workforce in order to reduce the price of cars to stay more competitive. Nassau/ Suffolk county needs to adjust compensation (and all of their expenses) in order to remain competitive. Many young couples are leaving LI for more affordable dwelling. That will leave the extremely rich, the old (with the star exemption), and the police living here by 2020 - to steal a quote from clamboy.
Also, in response to your paragraph stating why should we begrudge a PO or teacher who can afford a mcmansion - the fact is we shouldn't, unless they are so overpaid and we are so overtaxed that the general public is struggling because we're spending so much of our hard earned money to support the civil servants of the county. I believe it has reached that point with the cops. Most households in Nassau and Suffolk do not make even 2/3rds of what the cops do. That's not even factoring in the other parts of their compensation which really send their total comp figure into the stratusphere. But if a cop, paid a decent wag, can save up and buy a nice big house - fine no issue. The issue comes into play when the police compensation is just so far over and above most other households and the tax situation is what it is.
I disagree with you suggesting what salaries should be. The market should dictate salaries. Surgeons are paid what they are because you must be highly skilled, highly intelligent, and highly educated. Plumbers who own their own business make what they do because they have developed a skill in a field where many people don't want to work - their is scarcity of the surgeons skills and scarcity of the plumbers skills. If there were tons of plumbers out there each one of them would bid below the other to work on my house because they want the work - then they would make less and their compensation would decrease. The problem with the cops is the skills required to do that job are not scarce. It does not take higher education or a great deal of intelligence to be an effective cop.
Moderator cut: cut because of provocative remarks from quoted post .
If the market dictated police compensation, it's safe to say it would SIGNIFICANTLY less than it currently is.
Still spouting the same line. Your lack of knowledge of what cops do and what is required to perform their job is incredible.
Last edited by nancy thereader; 08-28-2008 at 01:24 PM..
Where did I mention what cops do? If you are going to attack the post at least cite an example.
There are some people..usually themselves cops..who will defend cops no matter what they do. Like, for instance..knocking a guy off a bike and then lying about what happened..defend it..body slam a woman and break her jaw..defend it. It's part of the mentality of cops. So, it shouldn't surprise anyone that no level of compensation is sufficient to these guys. They'll always push for more, and react aggressively when anyone tries to bring sense to the situation.
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