Flattening the curve is working! (Los Angeles, San Francisco: to move, pool, electricity)

[Astral_Weeks]

Originally Posted by ohio_peasant

Vietnam was arguably a travesty and a foolish cause, on top of being a failure. Any life lost in Vietnam, was a tragic mistake, and an entirely avoidable one.

But pandemics are acts of nature. We mourn every death, but it is emphatically not the case, that generals or despots sent these people to their deaths. Even if humanity goes extinct, through some enormous miscarriage of nature, it is after all a natural act, and not a manmade one.

In other words, we can and should avoid sending our young-men to die for facile goals of national hubris. But this it totally unlike actively harming our society, in some desperate attempt to blunt nature's wrath.

I guess that means the City of Los Angeles should rescind its building code which includes strict structural regulations to mitigate the impact from earthquakes and save human lives. Since earthquakes are a natural occurring event.....why bother?

[landlock]

Originally Posted by goodheathen

Death is not the only metric that matters, and COVID-19 is not known to be asymptomatic for the vast majority of people over 35 or thereabouts. Until you wake the heck up and realize that, your posts are almost toxic. The virus isn't slowing down in Los Angeles, and that's with lockdown, which everyone (including me) wishes could safely end. No place has successfully reopened without a drop in new infections.

Due to the importance of being able to reopen most of the county, I think the government might have to bribe stupid/selfish people to be tested and then (as has been officially considered) pay them to stay home (with ankle monitoring and ignition locks on vehicles, I guess) if infected.

Fact are "toxic" these days. My posts that state the scientific facts are as "toxic" as overblown virus threat.
I have a feeling next thing people will start stating that the Earth is flat, etc.

I'll repeat what I posted on general Coronavirus thread:
Looks like they're arriving at 0.33% COVID mortality rate in the worst case scenario (likely lower, more like 0.2-0.3, according to that Stanford profersors' interview), with Santa Clara/Stanford testing and study results exactly matching German study across the world:
https://www.sfgate.com/news/editorsp...h-15263047.php
So it's only 2 to 3.3 times higher mortality than regular flu strain.

I haven't stated that "death is the only metric that matters"; I said this was the most important metric because it's less relative metric than others such as number of new cases per day (which depends on who's been willing to be tested) - but even this 2nd metric had stabilized long time ago and had also been decreasing since.

Regarding percent of people being asymptomatic - Santa Clara/Stanford antibody testing study (and other similar studies in NY, Europe, etc) were finding figures such 53 times more cases than what was found via testing of sick people who sought help. So 1000K cases became 53K cases, about 98% never sought help and were asymptomatic or very light symptoms. A lot of testing of prisoners that was done all over the US was showing 94-98% fully asymptomatic. So the percent of asymptomatic is extremely high and I believe most likely above 80%.

There's no need to test massive numbers of people, especially to test them daily, as they tried to propose. This is ridiculous, unachievable, too expensive, would violate people's rights and thus unenforceable. Bribing people into is pointless too; 0.33% worst scenario death rate virus is simply not worth it. Some strains of flu are deadlier than that, 0.1% flu mortality rate is based on averaging of all strains, while some of them are particularly bad and didn't get widely spread by sheer luck.

Ignition locks, ankle monitors and other totalitarian control? Not going to happen. Too late, people had woken up at this point.

[jr6035]

Wow. The sheep are bleating.

[goodheathen]

Originally Posted by landlock

Fact are "toxic" these days. My posts that state the scientific facts are as "toxic" as overblown virus threat.
I have a feeling next thing people will start stating that the Earth is flat, etc.

I'll repeat what I posted on general Coronavirus thread:
Looks like they're arriving at 0.33% COVID mortality rate in the worst case scenario (likely lower, more like 0.2-0.3, according to that Stanford profersors' interview), with Santa Clara/Stanford testing and study results exactly matching German study across the world:
https://www.sfgate.com/news/editorsp...h-15263047.php
So it's 2 to 3.3 times higher mortality than regular flu strain.

I haven't stated that "death is the only metric that matters"; I said this was the most important metric because it's less relative metric than others such , as number of new cases per day - but even this 2nd metric had stabilized long time ago and had been decreasing all the time since.

Regarding percent of people being asymptomatic - Santa Clara/Stanford antibody testing study (and other similar studies in NY, Europe, etc) were finding figures such 53 times more cases than what was found via testing of sick people who sought help. So 1000K cases became 53K cases, 98% never sought help and were asymptomatic or very light symptoms. A lot of testing of prisoners that was done all over the US was showing 94-98% asymptomatic. So the percent of asymptomatic is extremely high and I believe most likely above 80%.

Above 80% doesn't matter much, if 5% do get it bad. "Very light symptoms" is almost complete conjecture on your part among people who are over 35 or so and not consistent with many case reports or any infection that gets into the chest cavity. I told you that prisoner studies aren't worth much because prisons skew young; it makes you look dishonest to refuse to acknowledge that. Also, many sick people don't go to the doctor for flu symptoms or anything they feel they can handle on their own; people don't like seeking medical help.

There's no need to test massive numbers of people, especially to test them daily, as they tried to propose. This is ridiculous, unachievable, too expensive, would violate people's rights and thus unenforceable. Bribing people into is pointless too; 0.33% worst scenario death rate virus is simply not worth it. Some strains of flu are deadlier than that, 0.1% flu mortality rate is based on averaging of all strains, while some of them are particularly bad and didn't get widely spread by sheer luck.

While I agree that daily testing is not doable, after that again deliberately misleading. In practical terms, COVID-19 is one of history's diseases most easily transmitted among people. It could infect almost everyone, and if 5% of people over 35 get it bad, that's much worse than lockdown. For now, it's fantasy to think that Los Angeles has transmission under control; it's just taped together artificially from closures.

Another approach is to distribute benefits a few times a month and on condition of being tested for the virus. Nobody has to like my ideas, but flattening is stalling and becoming damaging and reopening everything soon would flame out.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Astral_Weeks

I guess that means the City of Los Angeles should rescind its building code which includes strict structural regulations to mitigate the impact from earthquakes and save human lives. Since earthquakes are a natural occurring event.....why bother?

Oh *snap*

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by ohio_peasant

Vietnam was arguably a travesty and a foolish cause, on top of being a failure. Any life lost in Vietnam, was a tragic mistake, and an entirely avoidable one.

But pandemics are acts of nature. We mourn every death, but it is emphatically not the case, that generals or despots sent these people to their deaths. Even if humanity goes extinct, through some enormous miscarriage of nature, it is after all a natural act, and not a manmade one.

In other words, we can and should avoid sending our young-men to die for facile goals of national hubris. But this it totally unlike actively harming our society, in some desperate attempt to blunt nature's wrath.

Um no. What Astral said ...

But, on top of that: what’s the difference between acts of nature and acts of men? Are we not creatures of nature? You are elevating our species above nature ... a common error of thinking held by the vast majority of narcissistic humanity. If we truly knew what we were doing for the most part - we wouldn’t do the stupid things we do.

We’re not so bright as we think we are. Not even close. Just a bunch of monkeys that can read and tell each other fictions about our nature.

[goodheathen]

I think for LA to win the battle soon, it might need to use Blue Laws (shut almost everything down on Sundays) or convert most parking to permit parking, so that it's hard for households (at least those in apartments) to mingle privately anymore (which would require parking enforcement that a union likely would object to for health reasons). COVID-19 is so new to the world that I can only guess that it's spreading more in stores than in small home gatherings.

[looker009]

Originally Posted by Exitus Acta Probat

Now we have extra detention through July because some of you can't seem to mask-up and stay socially separated. Thanks a lot for that. I hate some of you people so much.

No there is extra "detention" for those that are actually listening the government. Majority of us are not, you're on the other hand are welcome to stay home, lock your door and even put blanket over your head.

[Mike930]

Originally Posted by Exitus Acta Probat

Now we have extra detention through July because some of you can't seem to mask-up and stay socially separated. Thanks a lot for that. I hate some of you people so much.

In all seriousness, they wouldn’t care if everyone stayed home. They open all kinds of outdoor activities, so people will go out and take advantage of that and you had people shopping for food. There’s no way you could have everyone stay completely isolated for two weeks.

Then you have Garcetti:

“We’re not moving past COVID-19, we’re learning to live with it — and we will keep taking measured steps toward a new, safer reality in the days and weeks ahead,” he said in a statement.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lat...al%3f_amp=true

And the LA County Public Health Director. They aren’t going to relax the order until there’s a vaccine. I’d be surprised if they let everyone free by the end of the year:

“Speaking to the Board of Supervisors during a debate on extending an eviction moratorium, Barbara Ferrer, director of the Department of Public Health, said restrictions will most likely remain in place unless there is a “dramatic change in this virus or in the tools available” to fight COVID-19.

Such changes would include a widely available and reliable vaccine, at- home daily testing for COVID-19 and treatment for the infection.”

[landlock]

I've always been supporting requiring masks so far, but now I'm not going to support even this anymore, because this covid-flu totalitarian power grab is clearly getting out of hand and true scale of insanity of those who're pushing it is coming to the surface. Or, perhaps they're practicing the next lockdown because of some strain "seasonsal flu" that may come next winter, that will never be lifted. I'll still wear the mask myself, but will not support forcing others to wear them anymore.
TX just stopped several counties that tried to make them mandatory in public places.

If certain authorities weren't so blatantly after depriving people of freedoms, may be they'd be listened to more and trusted some.
I mean they're planning to force-quarantine (at home) healthy people now, who "been in contact" with covid-flu infected, but have no antibodies or any evidence of infection? This is what officially was said by Ventura county at least and this is illegal house arrest for no reason/false imprisonment, clearly. I will not be supporting any of their measures anymore.