LA Riot thread (San Diego, Stockton: renting, crimes, wedding)

[TimTheEnchanter]

Originally Posted by Angelino19

The looting and fires resulting from peaceful protests in the City of LA have been very confined and lasted only two days.

So looting and burning and the police doing nothing is okay as long as it isn't as bad as '92?

Originally Posted by CA4Now

People are saying that they're looting because of the college admissions scandal? I hadn't heard that one.

I get that. Many of the looters I saw looked like parents who kids missed out on a rowing scholarship to USC.

Originally Posted by Astral_Weeks

One incident doesn't represent the totality of what has largely been peaceful protests.

You do understand the irony of that statement, right?

Originally Posted by Astral_Weeks

Once again, the protests have been peaceful for nearly a week now.

The owner of this YouTube Channel has an agenda obviously (and a mentality), but it doesn't invalidate the content of the videos.

[Exitus Acta Probat]

Originally Posted by Astral_Weeks

Once again, the protests have been peaceful for nearly a week now and the looting was over with by Monday. And yes the looting/vandalism was terrible and not justified. That said, I don't think we should hold peaceful protesters responsible for preventing looting. That is the responsibility of local law enforcement.

You participated in a protest that was about violence against women and of course the police are going to be sympathetic to that....as they aren't the target.

This protest is clearly aimed at police abuse of power and that does mean there will some animosity. I don't agree at all with protesters antagonizing the police. But as someone with a conservative viewpoint as I think you have, I would think you would be enraged by the police abuse of power.

You appear to have a respect for the rule of law and have a healthy skepticism of excessive government power which should make you more skeptical of the state’s monopoly on violence: the police.

Not a local example but a 70-year old (unarmed) protester was pushed to the ground in Buffalo by the police. The man is suffering serious head injuries and the police just walked away from the man as he hit the ground.

That's not correct. I saw looting on the news last Wednesday when the horde was in Van Nuys. And there's been a consistent vandalism all along -- a war memorial, various statues, etc.

These people are peaceful compared to whom, the armies of Attila the Hun?

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter

So looting and burning and the police doing nothing is okay as long as it isn't as bad as '92?

You don’t know much about policing obviously.

Three federal commissions concluded that when police escalate force those efforts can often go wrong, creating the very violence that force was meant to prevent.

Researchers have spent 50 years studying the way crowds of protesters and crowds of police behave — and what happens when the two interact. One thing they will tell you is that when the police respond by escalating force — wearing riot gear from the start, or using tear gas on protesters — it doesn’t work. In fact, disproportionate police force is one of the things that can make a peaceful protest not so peaceful. But if we know that (and have known that for decades), why are police still doing it?

“There’s this failed mindset of ‘if we show force, immediately we will deter criminal activity or unruly activity’ and show me where that has worked,” said Scott Thomson, the former chief of police in Camden, New Jersey.

“That’s the primal response,” he said. “The adrenaline starts to pump, the temperature in the room is rising, and you want to go one step higher. But what we need to know as professionals is that there are times, if we go one step higher, we are forcing them to go one step higher.”

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...-force-anyway/

New Directions in Protest Policing
https://scholarship.law.slu.edu/cgi/...28&context=plr

[Mike930]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

You don’t know much about policing obviously.

It seems like there may be discussions going on here about two different groups of people. There were the protesters and the looters/rioters.

The police shouldn’t stand by and do nothing about the looting/rioting. Protesters are a different story. I can understand backing off as long as it remains peaceful.

Looting and rioting needs to be put down immediately, manpower allowing.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Mike930

It seems like there may be discussions going on here about two different groups of people. There were the protesters and the looters/rioters.

The police shouldn’t stand by and do nothing about the looting/rioting. Protesters are a different story. I can understand backing off as long as it remains peaceful.

Looting and rioting needs to be put down immediately, manpower allowing.

Well, that would be great. Unfortunately - and I do mean it is unfortunate - the looters/rioters are operating with protestors as shields in a way. They mix and mingle where there are crowds. Policing science has evolved through learning that it is often better to not take immediate actions that can be framed by protestors and media as escalating. Better to take pictures and go after looters later. And they do. There are plenty of plain clothes in those marches.

LAPD, FBI to Arrest Looters in Future with Videos, Photos
Both the Los Angeles Police Department and the FBI are using photos and videos to arrest individuals who looted or incited acts of violence during this weekend’s protests. But the move has generated concerns.
https://www.governing.com/next/LAPD-...os-Photos.html

[TimTheEnchanter]

Originally Posted by Mike930

It seems like there may be discussions going on here about two different groups of people. There were the protesters and the looters/rioters.

The police shouldn’t stand by and do nothing about the looting/rioting. Protesters are a different story. I can understand backing off as long as it remains peaceful.

Looting and rioting needs to be put down immediately, manpower allowing.

Exactly what I was going to say.

The police cannot stand by when the violence is happening.

Those commissions were looking largely at demonstrations during the civil rights era and police agencies in the South. Medaria Arradondo isn't Bull Connor.

[Mike930]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Well, that would be great. Unfortunately - and I do mean it is unfortunate - the looters/rioters are operating with protestors as shields in a way. They mix and mingle where there are crowds. Policing science has evolved through learning that it is often better to not take immediate actions that can be framed by protestors and media as escalating. Better to take pictures and go after looters later. And they do. There are plenty of plain clothes in those marches.

Key being in the future. Now photos and videos are limited help with all the masks.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter

Exactly what I was going to say.

The police cannot stand by when the violence is happening.

Those commissions were looking largely at demonstrations during the civil rights era and police agencies in the South. Medaria Arradondo isn't Bull Connor.

Obviously, they can

The old mindset is changing.

Militarizing the police sets up protesters as ‘the enemy,’ increases violence
By Tom Nolan - June 3, 2020
... The militarization of police departments has been a feature of U.S. domestic law enforcement since the 9/11 attacks. What is clear from the latest round of protest and response, is that despite efforts to promote de-escalation as a policy, police culture appears to be stuck in an “us vs. them” mentality.

... Just months after the Ferguson unrest, President Obama set up his Task Force on 21st Century Policing. It recommended the implementation of training and policies that “emphasize de-escalation.” It also called on police to employ tactics during protests “designed to minimize the appearance of a military operation and avoid using provocative tactics and equipment that undermine civilian trust.”

https://www.azmirror.com/2020/06/03/...ases-violence/

[Mike930]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Obviously, they can

The old mindset is changing.

They can, but they shouldn’t. It’s a classic case of give them an inch and they’ll take a mile.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Mike930

They can, but they shouldn’t. It’s a classic case of give them an inch and they’ll take a mile.

Maybe. But maybe the smartest way to deal with it is just away a bit from the perimeters of the action.