LAPD Still Won't Get Vaccinated (Bell, Stanford: house, find a job, school district)

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by goodheathen

Most? Very few police departments in California are anywhere near LAPD's size and therefore don't get much scrutiny. I think LAPD is the one closest to implementing mandatory vaccination for police and San Diego has it in the works. Maybe lawsuits could slightly delay them. I think Los Angeles could lose a few percentage points of its police to other parts of Southern California (or different regions or fields of work altogether, since some people always are thinking of leaving anyway). Enough people want to join the LAPD that it shouldn't be a problem except possibly in stations with very high percentages of anti-vaxxers. If I were LAPD, I'd start transferring or terminating for other reasons police now to avoid a wave of exits when the compliance date arrives.

Other California Law Enforcement agencies mandating vaccine: Note there is no compilation of agencies requiring LE vaccines so I googled a number of agencies and listed those that specified a vaccine mandate.) Riverside SO was also mandated but the Sheriff said he will ignore it, so maybe the LAPD cops can find a home there?

California Highway Patrol
Santa Ana PD
Laguna PD
Long Beach PD
Pasadena PD
San Francisco, PD
San Francisco County S.O.
Contra Costa County
Oakland Police dept.
Alameda County S.O.
Berkeley Police
California Dept of Corrections
San Diego PD
Sacramento PD
Orange Couny SO

[goodheathen]

Originally Posted by Nyfinestbxtf

No, but you claimed that the predominant spread of covid is from the unvaccinated. There is no evidence of that. Even the CDC article you posted doesn’t make such a claim. The most this article states is

“ However, data show fully vaccinated persons are less likely than unvaccinated persons to acquire SARS-CoV-2, and infections with the Delta variant in fully vaccinated persons are associated with less severe clinical outcomes. Infections with the Delta variant in vaccinated persons potentially have reduced transmissibility than infections in unvaccinated persons, although additional studies are needed.”

https://www.businessinsider.com/covi...quicker-2021-8

If that's validated by more studies, then mandatory vaccination could cut cases a lot - as has happened in roughly the past month where I live - and would prevent station outbreaks that could cripple the police. Also, for now LAPD has to worry about paying and possibly replacing employees who can't work for much more than 10-14 days, because that's a realistic outcome in an unvaccinated person who isn't young.

[goodheathen]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Other California Law Enforcement agencies mandating vaccine: Note there is no compilation of agencies requiring LE vaccines so I googled a number of agencies and listed those that specified a vaccine mandate.) Riverside SO was also mandated but the Sheriff said he will ignore it, so maybe the LAPD cops can find a home there?

California Highway Patrol
Santa Ana PD
Laguna PD
Long Beach PD
Pasadena PD
San Francisco, PD
San Francisco County S.O.
Contra Costa County
Oakland Police dept.
Alameda County S.O.
Berkeley Police
California Dept of Corrections
San Diego PD
Sacramento PD
Orange Couny SO

Good work there. I guess that leaves local police departments in Orange County, along with Ventura and San Bernadino, which I'm not surprised at all aren't mandating anything (SB is a low-level COVID disaster zone). FYI, mandatory vaccination for Santa Monica municipal employees is nearing, ditto for Culver City, and that's probably true for almost all other cities within LA County.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by goodheathen

Good work there. I guess that leaves local police departments in Orange County, along with Ventura and San Bernadino, which I'm not surprised at all aren't mandating anything (SB is a low-level COVID disaster zone). FYI, mandatory vaccination for Santa Monica municipal employees is nearing, ditto for Culver City, and that's probably true for almost all other cities within LA County.

You'd be surprised how many don't have any information on vaccine mandates at all.

[joosoon]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Other California Law Enforcement agencies mandating vaccine: Note there is no compilation of agencies requiring LE vaccines so I googled a number of agencies and listed those that specified a vaccine mandate.) Riverside SO was also mandated but the Sheriff said he will ignore it, so maybe the LAPD cops can find a home there?

California Highway Patrol
Santa Ana PD
Laguna PD
Long Beach PD
Pasadena PD
San Francisco, PD
San Francisco County S.O.
Contra Costa County
Oakland Police dept.
Alameda County S.O.
Berkeley Police
California Dept of Corrections
San Diego PD
Sacramento PD
Orange Couny SO

I know SDPD's union is still negotiating this with the city so it's not a done deal. I'm going to guess the same is true for the others in your list and it will all depend on what's ultimately bargained in the contracts. It's a bit weird how much vaccine resistance there seems to be within LE ranks though considering they were some of the first to have them offered. I can't link directly to this article because the station's call letters (k u s i) trigger this forum's weird censor, but allegedly 90% of SD police are opposed to a mandate too.


https://www.****.com/90-of-san-diego...cine-mandates/


The fight with public employees isn't worth it when all they're asking is for a testing option instead.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by joosoon

I know SDPD's union is still negotiating this with the city so it's not a done deal. I'm going to guess the same is true for the others in your list and it will all depend on what's ultimately bargained in the contracts. It's a bit weird how much vaccine resistance there seems to be within LE ranks though considering they were some of the first to have them offered. I can't link directly to this article because the station's call letters (k u s i) trigger this forum's weird censor, but allegedly 90% of SD police are opposed to a mandate too.


https://www.****.com/90-of-san-diego...cine-mandates/


The fight with public employees isn't worth it when all they're asking is for a testing option instead.

Every agency I listed had a mandate passed by the City Council or County Board of supervisor, you're right about some the agencies encountering resistance but I don't think that means that it's not settled policy. In San Diego the mandate was approved by the Board of Supervisors what we have now is quibbling by the Police Dept.

"The results come as the San Diego police union pushes back against a city vaccination mandate. Union president suggests city may consider testing option." https://www.latimes.com/california/s...accine-mandate

[capoeira]

Originally Posted by goodheathen

https://www.businessinsider.com/covi...quicker-2021-8

If that's validated by more studies, then mandatory vaccination could cut cases a lot - as has happened in roughly the past month where I live - and would prevent station outbreaks that could cripple the police.

Vaccination really worked in Israel until it didn't. It is a very temporary therapeutic that fades out after 4 to 8 months.

https://www.sott.net/article/456689-...are-vaccinated

"An Israeli reporter from News Israel 13 interviewed Dr. Kobi Haviv, who is the director of the Herzog Hospital in Jerusalem.

She began by saying, "I understand that most of the patients are vaccinated, even 'severe' patients."

...85-90% of the hospitalizations here are fully vaccinated people."

__________________________________________________ ______________

Since many firefighters and police have already had covid, it would be insanely stupid to require them to get a vaccine based on the latest data from Israel.

https://fee.org/articles/harvard-epi...st-demolished/

"In Israel, vaccinated individuals had 27 times higher risk of symptomatic COVID infection compared to those with natural immunity from prior COVID disease"

__________________________________________________ ______________

For healthy young people the side effects from the clotshot are much more of a risk. Look at some of the vaccine horror stories posted by medical professionals on Medscape. When this site was first posted on City-data there were about 200 comments. Now there are over 1900 comments.

https://www.medscape.com/sites/publi...c=soc_fb_share


"Having personal experience with colleagues and friends who've developed myocarditis after the Pfizer vaccine, Bell's Palsy, fatal myocardial infarction two days after getting the J&J vaccine, transverse myelitis from Moderna along with people who were fully vaccinated yet got myocarditis from Covid, severe respiratory insufficiency, severe distal neuropathy, not to mention symptomatic Covid infections requiring up to 2 weeks off - I can tell you that the reactions are A) not as rare as they are trying to pass them off "

"I have treated a lot of obvious adverse effects of the vaccine (pfizer and Moderna). Including 5 patients who had ischemic strokes within 7 days of the shot, 2 anaphylaxis shock patients, 2 LE paralysis, several new onset autoimmune disease."

"first Pfizer vaccine in March this year, a few days after I experienced severe pain in my joints which continued over the weeks to the point I could not walk,or get out of bed. Just extreme pain and stiffness in all my joints, especially shoulders, lower back and legs. After eventually being seen by a doctor, they advised that I was having a reaction to the vaccine."

"a (44yrs) family friend died of a cerebral hemorrhage within a week of her shot. "

Many other vaccine adverse events are documented in the 1900+ comments.

[goodheathen]

Originally Posted by joosoon

I know SDPD's union is still negotiating this with the city so it's not a done deal. I'm going to guess the same is true for the others in your list and it will all depend on what's ultimately bargained in the contracts. It's a bit weird how much vaccine resistance there seems to be within LE ranks though considering they were some of the first to have them offered. I can't link directly to this article because the station's call letters (k u s i) trigger this forum's weird censor, but allegedly 90% of SD police are opposed to a mandate too.


https://www.****.com/90-of-san-diego...cine-mandates/


The fight with public employees isn't worth it when all they're asking is for a testing option instead.

Adequate testing is expensive - unless maybe they start using dogs to screen - and it doesn't do much to reduce transmission and has very little impact on health outcomes.

[goodheathen]

Originally Posted by capoeira

Vaccination really worked in Israel until it didn't. It is a very temporary therapeutic that fades out after 4 to 8 months.

https://www.sott.net/article/456689-...are-vaccinated

"An Israeli reporter from News Israel 13 interviewed Dr. Kobi Haviv, who is the director of the Herzog Hospital in Jerusalem.

She began by saying, "I understand that most of the patients are vaccinated, even 'severe' patients."

...85-90% of the hospitalizations here are fully vaccinated people."

__________________________________________________ ______________

Since many firefighters and police have already had covid, it would be insanely stupid to require them to get a vaccine based on the latest data from Israel.

https://fee.org/articles/harvard-epi...st-demolished/

"In Israel, vaccinated individuals had 27 times higher risk of symptomatic COVID infection compared to those with natural immunity from prior COVID disease"

__________________________________________________ ______________

For healthy young people the side effects from the clotshot are much more of a risk. Look at some of the vaccine horror stories posted by medical professionals on Medscape. When this site was first posted on City-data there were about 200 comments. Now there are over 1900 comments.

https://www.medscape.com/sites/publi...c=soc_fb_share


"Having personal experience with colleagues and friends who've developed myocarditis after the Pfizer vaccine, Bell's Palsy, fatal myocardial infarction two days after getting the J&J vaccine, transverse myelitis from Moderna along with people who were fully vaccinated yet got myocarditis from Covid, severe respiratory insufficiency, severe distal neuropathy, not to mention symptomatic Covid infections requiring up to 2 weeks off - I can tell you that the reactions are A) not as rare as they are trying to pass them off "

"I have treated a lot of obvious adverse effects of the vaccine (pfizer and Moderna). Including 5 patients who had ischemic strokes within 7 days of the shot, 2 anaphylaxis shock patients, 2 LE paralysis, several new onset autoimmune disease."

"first Pfizer vaccine in March this year, a few days after I experienced severe pain in my joints which continued over the weeks to the point I could not walk,or get out of bed. Just extreme pain and stiffness in all my joints, especially shoulders, lower back and legs. After eventually being seen by a doctor, they advised that I was having a reaction to the vaccine."

"a (44yrs) family friend died of a cerebral hemorrhage within a week of her shot. "

Many other vaccine adverse events are documented in the 1900+ comments.

You expect me to trust the sources provided by someone who calls it the "clotshot"?

Even the Medscape comments don't mean much, because doctors can be loons (and I don't know if one has to be a medical professional to comment there).

This is not about the safety of the vaccine, which so far seems good. People need to take their misguided agendas elsewhere.

To the extent that effectiveness of the vaccine is relevant to whether it should be mandated for police (many of whom are old enough or unwell enough to be at risk from COVID-19), it is a factor, but if for most non-elderly people the protection is strong for more than half a year, it's worth it. That is more safety than other methods provide. Do people forget what things were like before vaccines? Appreciate the now, and let science come up with more effective vaccines in the future.

Also, I think in the meantime police officers shouldn't be riding together if neither is fully vaccinated.

[capoeira]

Originally Posted by goodheathen

Do people forget what things were like before vaccines?

Only the ones trying to promote the vaccines are motivated to forget. The situation is way worse in the UK with the vaccines.

https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/...about-vaccines

"Britain has pursued a mass vaccination strategy as aggressively as any country. It approved Pfizer’s vaccine even before the FDA. More than 80% of Britons over 16 are now fully vaccinated.

But Britain is in far worse shape than it was at this time last year, when no one was vaccinated. It is now averaging about 140 deaths a day, roughly 10 times as many as mid-September 2020. And hospitalizations and deaths continue to rise"

Also Alex Berenson wrote a great article on why firefighters are resisting the vaccine. This article may also apply to police officers.

https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/...andatory-covid

"I sent along questions, which three firefighters answered - a relatively junior paramedic, an EMT with about a decade of experience, and a long-serving captain. Here are their answers. I have cut for space but otherwise left them unchanged.

1) What are the main reasons that people are hesitant to get the vaccine?"