LAPD Still Won't Get Vaccinated (mortgage, salaries, dangerous)

[ketchikanite]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Sorry I saw nothing there that justifies exempting Police and Firefighters from getting vaccinated.
The medscape link is filled with anecdotal comments, nothing to support any of the claims. Vaers data regarding conditions that occurred after being vaccinated occur at similar numbers for the same age groups in people who were not vaccinated.

One of the studies you cite was a pre-publication of a study that had not been peer reviewed.

Fee.org (a right wing organization) features Dr. Martin Kulldorff who is an avid anti-lockdown proponent, here's what the guardian had to say about him: "The controversial proposal was published by a right-leaning American thinktank, the American Institute for Economic Research. It was drawn up by three researchers – Dr Sunetra Gupta of Oxford University, Dr Jay Bhattacharya of Stanford University, and Kulldorff – and has garnered thousands of signatures from health professionals. However, on 9 October, Sky News revealed that many of the “medical” signatories of the open letter were homeopaths, therapists or used obviously fake names, such as Dr Johnny Bananas and Dr Person Fakename, leading to accusations that the total number exaggerated the scale of scientific support."

As far as the shocking news from Israel, it's really not shocking, you just cherry picked your sources: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...psons-paradox/

Immunity after recovering from covid seems to last between 3 and 10 months https://whyy.org/articles/what-immun...eed-a-vaccine/

And the narrative of a firefighter struggling to explain why he doesn't want to get vaccinated was not very convincing.

Immunity from Covid lasts at least 18 months. That’s how long it’s been for me. I just finished taking care of 4 of my grandchildren that all came down with Covid at the same time. Neither of their parents have had it yet so I volunteered. I’ve been in at least 5 super speared events since contracting the virus in February 2020. And I’m not vaccinated and not going to be.

[mcp86]

Originally Posted by joosoon

What would the city do? It goes both ways that's why it's better to find a compromise and the compromise is what's becoming pretty standard in contracts which is the testing alternative to vaccination. Even if only 10% of a major PD walked away over this, it would be a huge impact and filling those positions would not come easy.


Ideally, I agree everyone should just get vaccinated but I'm also realistic about the situation and being hard-nosed isn't a solution.

Currently we very well know covid is to stay for a long time. How long can we keep testing every week?

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by ketchikanite

Immunity from Covid lasts at least 18 months. That’s how long it’s been for me.

We actually don't know how long it lasts.

Scientists still don’t know as much about the durability of immunity as they would like, he said. What they expect based on coronaviruses that existed prior to SARS-CoV-2 is that antibodies decline over time.

https://whyy.org/articles/what-immun...eed-a-vaccine/

After testing positive for COVID-19, most people then have detectable antibodies. But experts say the protection they get after having the virus is still less than when people get vaccinated.

https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2021/...ing-covid.html

[goodheathen]

Originally Posted by joosoon

All of that is your opinion.


My school district offers regular (weekly) onsite testing to any staff, but it's mandatory for any who aren't vaccinated. It's also open to students who opt-in. I'm vaccinated, but I still participate as does just about everyone else I know. Obviously it's not so cost prohibitive if it can be provided at that level in the second largest school district in the state. Maybe you don't see any value in testing, but it's part of a larger plan put together by actual experts to help maintain positive "health outcomes" and keep schools from shutting down again.


Anyone who thinks municipalities should go to the mat over these mandates isn't being realistic. Just allow the testing option, incentivize vaccinations and avoid super costly litigation. There's no winning against police, fire and other public employee unions on the matter.

If I didn't see any value in testing, I wouldn't call for it. But it's to detect new infections before they spread exponentially.

Municipalities like Los Angeles have tens of thousands of employees. Let's say 5% of working adults in those regions. They can't then let first responders off the hook. It's about getting the general population vaccinated, not just minimizing workplace infections. It's also at this point about restoring trust in police in particular.

I think the biggest concessions Los Angeles can make are to delay the mandate while providing employees with more credible information and to put former employees first in line for re-hiring if they decide to get vaccinated up to half a year after the deadline.

[goodheathen]

Originally Posted by mcp86

Currently we very well know covid is to stay for a long time. How long can we keep testing every week?

Yeah. The police already have dogs trained to sniff for various substances. They'll need to arrange for some that can detect COVID-19. That should reduce the cost to something affordable.

[Nyfinestbxtf]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

The biggest joke of all is that the Police Union wants the City to pay for testing for the special snowflakes who refuse to get vaccinated. I would call their bluff, most of them will never find a job that pays as well and what are they going to do, move to Idaho get half the pay they are receiving now and uproot their family? I just don't believe it.

Explain how police officers who refuse to be vaccinated are snowflakes? What in the world are you blabbing about? Because you are vaccinated doesn’t prevent infection and doesn’t prevent spread. That’s a fact. Why should any person who is younger and healthy be mandated to vaccinate if the vaccine doesn’t even prevent infection or spread? Why should an individual who has antibodies be vaccinated? So being it is true that the vaccine doesn’t prevent infection and spread, whether or not you are vaccinated, then every officer should continue to be tested weekly for covid. If testing is a policy of the police department, then the tests should be paid for by the municipality.

[goodheathen]

It lowers the risk of infection (probably only slightly as a full year nears), and as I previously posted early data indicates risk of spread from vaccinated people is lower. Police are "snowflakes" if you consider that many employees in other, lower-paying occupations with plenty of young, seemingly healthy workers are subject to mandatory vaccination and are hardly fighting it. (Newly the Arizona Fall League in professional baseball.) And it's a danger to local safety if a police station is understaffed due to an outbreak, the longer the worse. Regular testing has not been shown to prevent moderate outbreaks - again, see pro baseball (yes, mostly vaccinated). Police supposedly exist for the public good. Maybe the government should have coerced better months ago, but at this point a mandate is justifiably coming and will withstand lawsuits.

[Nyfinestbxtf]

Originally Posted by goodheathen

It lowers the risk of infection (probably only slightly as a full year nears), and as I previously posted early data indicates risk of spread from vaccinated people is lower. Police are "snowflakes" if you consider that many employees in other, lower-paying occupations with plenty of young, seemingly healthy workers are subject to mandatory vaccination and are hardly fighting it. (Newly the Arizona Fall League in professional baseball.) And it's a danger to local safety if a police station is understaffed due to an outbreak, the longer the worse. Regular testing has not been shown to prevent moderate outbreaks - again, see pro baseball (yes, mostly vaccinated). Police supposedly exist for the public good. Maybe the government should have coerced better months ago, but at this point a mandate is justifiably coming and will withstand lawsuits.

There is no evidence of that the risk of spread is lower from the vaccinated. No one knows that. 76% of Americans who can be vaccinated are vaccinated and we do not know how many of the remaining 24% have natural immunity. Vaccinated people are still being infected with covid and are shedding covid onto others. That’s a fact.

Please explain how anyone who refuses the covid shot are snowflakes? Doesn’t even make sense. Are you calling our NAVY SEALS who refuse the shot snowflakes? The covid shot isn’t one size fits all. If an individual has natural immunity, then why are they still mandated to get a covid shot? The Covid shot clearly doesn’t prevent infection and spread, so how can anyone mandate the shot? The covid shot isn’t doing what we thought it was going to do. There are people who have legitimate concerns and questions with this shot that they demand to be answered prior to getting the jab.

[Flavia84]

Keep mandating the jab. Let them leave if they want. We’ll welcome your cops here in Texas

[markg91359]

Originally Posted by Nyfinestbxtf

Explain how police officers who refuse to be vaccinated are snowflakes? What in the world are you blabbing about? Because you are vaccinated doesn’t prevent infection and doesn’t prevent spread. That’s a fact. Why should any person who is younger and healthy be mandated to vaccinate if the vaccine doesn’t even prevent infection or spread? Why should an individual who has antibodies be vaccinated? So being it is true that the vaccine doesn’t prevent infection and spread, whether or not you are vaccinated, then every officer should continue to be tested weekly for covid. If testing is a policy of the police department, then the tests should be paid for by the municipality.

I advocate that all persons who refuse to be vaccinated--and don't have a medical reason for doing so--should be barred from emergency care or hospitalization for covid. Another alternative, would be to assess them a copayment of $75,000.00 for their care. Require that all those with a home execute a second mortgage on the home for this amount as a condition of being allowed hospital care. Please don't tell me its the same thing as a "heart attack". A heart attack may not be preventable. The vast, vast majority of hospitalizations are preventable by becoming vaccinated.