Thoughts after visiting Louisville today..some questions (Shively, Liberty: houses, neighborhoods)

[Traveler87]

Originally Posted by jstn

STX, Traveler doesn't know his A$$ from a whole in the ground. I'm not even going to begin to act as though I know anything about Louisville. I'm simply here because it could be a possible relocation spot for me.

My point about Traveler is that he likes to make sweeping generalizations on cities outside of the state of Ohio, yet his true experience in them is a few days stay or what he has read in a book.

I've seen him do the exact same thing on other forums, one which included my former home (Cincinnati) and now my current home (Charlotte), and his generalizations and statements were borderline asinine. He knows things by a study or a quick visit, we know by "being in the trenches".

Don't feel like you need to defend your city to this joker!

Just my 2 cents...

Grow up, seriously.

You sound like your five there buddy.

Don't sit there and make generalizations about me when you know jack!

[Traveler87]

Originally Posted by stx12499

Traveler,

I beg to differ. Louisville is growing substantially faster than cleveland, has lower crime rates, lower unemployment, and arguably a much better and more active nightlife for young singles. In fact, Louisville is a big receiever of domestic in migration from Cleveland.

http://ksdc.louisville.edu/kpr/migra..._migration.pdf

This trend is from the late 90's and continues today even stronger (hit control plus F and search for Ohio in that study). Anecdotally, I am AMAZED at the number of Ohio plates I see here, and I notice more since I moved from Chicago a few years back.

Please review your stats with regards to downtown development. This isn't a city versus city thread, but Louisville has over a billion in construction in the downtown areas and several billion more planned. Including a 8,000 employeee life science park, a world class skyscraper, center city district, and more. Louisville easily has as many high rise proposals as Cleveland. We will see how many get off the ground though in both cities!

Finally, I agree with cobolt in that you cannot make sweeping generalizations. Cleveland has some nice parts and some more upscale shopping and pro sports. But as far as warmth, economy, growth, nightlife, and perhaps even restuarants, its losing to Louisville big time, even though it is half Cleveland's size metro wise.

Louisville's unemployment rate is not much better than Cleveland's. The nightlife is nothing compared to Cleveland in a lot of spots. I couldn't believe how dead it was at times.

Do you know how many people I know from Kentucky living in Ohio. It can swing both ways, I am sorry. I have many friends from Louisville in Columbus, and I know a few that work at Progressive based here in Cleveland. Also, do you know how many plates from Kentucky reach all the way up to Columbus and Dayton? The new shopping center the Greene was a huge hit for people from Kentucky. Not to mention Kings Island and Ikea in Cincy.

If you call a world class skyscraper Museum Plaza, that is a joke. Key Tower here in Cleveland blows it out of the water, and is Key Tower is designed by one of the best architects in the world, Cesear Pelli. And Museum Plaza's site was dead with nothing happening. I sure hope it goes through though, unlike Nashville's Signature Tower which went dead.

And weather wise, there is not much of a differance in temps at all. I watch the Weather Channel everyday, watching those 40s and 50s creep up is not a big differance from Cleveland to Louisville.

You can sit there and bash Cleveland all you want. Someone started bashing Cleveland here and I am going to defend it, just like I would expect you to defend Louisville.

Like I stated before, Cleveland and Louisville are not Detroit. We have diverse economies, and we have life and growth downtown and elsewhere in the metro areas. Cleveland even smaller than Detroit compared to Louisville and Cleveland, but Cleveland has a great public transport system, and Detroit doesn't even have a light rail line. That is embarrasing on Detroit's part.

I liked Louisville, don't get me wrong, but don't bash Cleveland, thats all I ask. You can find negatives and positives anywhere. Just remember that.

[Traveler87]

BTW, no intentions on starting a city vs city thing here...

[Hey_Hey]

I'm from Kentucky and living in Ohio now. On the whole, Kentuckians are far happier and optimistic than Ohioans. Columbus and Cincy are notable exceptions. Cleveland is definitely a larger urban area, but Louisville's urbanity is substatial as well, and the Bardstown Rd corridor is hard to beat. The "feel" I get from Clevelanders is that the city is dying and that people are leaving. The "feel" I get from Louisvillians is that people are upbeat about the city and excited to stay. Louisville's enthusiasm doesn't quite reach Nashvillians', but it's pretty close.

BTW, metro Akron (as well as Toledo and Dayton) is larger than Lexington, but the mood of the two cities are dramatically different. Akron, Toledo, and Dayton often get overlooked by the 3 C's, but if they were in Kentucky they would all be the second largest city. Lexingtonians have a mentiality that they live in a larger city than they do while Akronites, Toledoans, and Daytonians have a mentality that they live in a smaller city than they actually do.

[JefferyT]

I'm from Kentucky and living in Ohio now. On the whole, Kentuckians are far happier and optimistic than Ohioans. Columbus and Cincy are notable exceptions. Cleveland is definitely a larger urban area, but Louisville's urbanity is substatial as well, and the Bardstown Rd corridor is hard to beat. The "feel" I get from Clevelanders is that the city is dying and that people are leaving. The "feel" I get from Louisvillians is that people are upbeat about the city and excited to stay. Louisville's enthusiasm doesn't quite reach Nashvillians', but it's pretty close.

BTW, metro Akron (as well as Toledo and Dayton) is larger than Lexington, but the mood of the two cities are dramatically different. Akron, Toledo, and Dayton often get overlooked by the 3 C's, but if they were in Kentucky they would all be the second largest city. Lexingtonians have a mentiality that they live in a larger city than they do while Akronites, Toledoans, and Daytonians have a mentality that they live in a smaller city than they actually do.

This is a really great post, very on-target.

I'm also from Kentucky (sort of) and living in Ohio, but I can't speak to Cleveland. I can speak to Dayton and Columbus....Dayton sounds very very much like Hey_Hey's description of Cleveland...negativity and urban-death-wish attitude that I, personally, find depressing, and about the "smaller city" (id even go as far as say small town) mentality.

Lexington does feel like a bigger city for some reason, there is a more urbane attitude, more civic patriotism. Louisville shares that.

Kentucky is fortunate to have these two great citys, some of the best in their class. I'd say Columbus comes close to the Lou/Lex vibe. Cincy a bit, but it has its own thing going on.

One thing that Louisville and Lexington lack is some type of urban market. Nothing in these cities like North Market, Finlay Market, or West Side Market. Louisville could have had this with the Haymarket but they blew that chance.

[Peter1948]

Originally Posted by JefferyT

This is a really great post, very on-target.

I'm also from Kentucky (sort of) and living in Ohio, but I can't speak to Cleveland. I can speak to Dayton and Columbus....Dayton sounds very very much like Hey_Hey's description of Cleveland...negativity and urban-death-wish attitude that I, personally, find depressing, and about the "smaller city" (id even go as far as say small town) mentality.

Lexington does feel like a bigger city for some reason, there is a more urbane attitude, more civic patriotism. Louisville shares that.

Kentucky is fortunate to have these two great citys, some of the best in their class. I'd say Columbus comes close to the Lou/Lex vibe. Cincy a bit, but it has its own thing going on.

One thing that Louisville and Lexington lack is some type of urban market. Nothing in these cities like North Market, Finlay Market, or West Side Market. Louisville could have had this with the Haymarket but they blew that chance.

Louisville has several urban markets in the metro, and a very large urban market is in the works for east downtown in the Liberty Green district.

LouisvilleKy.gov - Mayor's Healthy Hometown Movement - Farmers' Market Locations

Of course there is nothing like Findlay Market in Cincy yet, but the new market in Liberty Green should be almost as good. Also, with Findlay, I find some of that area to be a bit run down and more polluted with homeless than the proposed area in Louisville, making it feel a little less safe.


The Green Building | Sustainable Design and Architecture | US Green Building Council | Solar Panels

Creative hub destined for Wayside buildings - Business First of Louisville: (http://albuquerque.bizjournals.com/louisville/stories/2008/07/21/story2.html - broken link)


By the way, with all the negative press surrounding the east market district, several businesses thrive and we are seeing new openings all the time from new galleries, and a large expansion of scout furniture to new restaurants like 732 social and cake flour, one of the better organic bakeries in the city.

[Traveler87]

BTW,

New stats out, Cleveland's unemployment rate is lower than Louisville's:

231Cleveland-Elyria-Mentor, OH Metropolitan Statistical Area6.3
238Louisville-Jefferson County, KY-IN Metropolitan Statistical Area6.4

Unemployment Rates for Metropolitan Areas

[Traveler87]

Originally Posted by JefferyT

This is a really great post, very on-target.

I'm also from Kentucky (sort of) and living in Ohio, but I can't speak to Cleveland. I can speak to Dayton and Columbus....Dayton sounds very very much like Hey_Hey's description of Cleveland...negativity and urban-death-wish attitude that I, personally, find depressing, and about the "smaller city" (id even go as far as say small town) mentality.

Lexington does feel like a bigger city for some reason, there is a more urbane attitude, more civic patriotism. Louisville shares that.

Kentucky is fortunate to have these two great citys, some of the best in their class. I'd say Columbus comes close to the Lou/Lex vibe. Cincy a bit, but it has its own thing going on.

One thing that Louisville and Lexington lack is some type of urban market. Nothing in these cities like North Market, Finlay Market, or West Side Market. Louisville could have had this with the Haymarket but they blew that chance.

How is the I-75 project coming along in Dayton? When I was driving through on my way to Cincy, it was a mess full of construction, but it seems like an awesome project.

[Traveler87]

Originally Posted by stx12499

Louisville has several urban markets in the metro, and a very large urban market is in the works for east downtown in the Liberty Green district.

LouisvilleKy.gov - Mayor's Healthy Hometown Movement - Farmers' Market Locations

Of course there is nothing like Findlay Market in Cincy yet, but the new market in Liberty Green should be almost as good. Also, with Findlay, I find some of that area to be a bit run down and more polluted with homeless than the proposed area in Louisville, making it feel a little less safe.


The Green Building | Sustainable Design and Architecture | US Green Building Council | Solar Panels

Creative hub destined for Wayside buildings - Business First of Louisville: (http://albuquerque.bizjournals.com/louisville/stories/2008/07/21/story2.html - broken link)


By the way, with all the negative press surrounding the east market district, several businesses thrive and we are seeing new openings all the time from new galleries, and a large expansion of scout furniture to new restaurants like 732 social and cake flour, one of the better organic bakeries in the city.

Have you ever been to Findlay Market, or better yet, Cincinnati? Or at least lately?

[Traveler87]

Originally Posted by Hey_Hey

BTW, metro Akron (as well as Toledo and Dayton) is larger than Lexington, but the mood of the two cities are dramatically different. Akron, Toledo, and Dayton often get overlooked by the 3 C's, but if they were in Kentucky they would all be the second largest city. Lexingtonians have a mentiality that they live in a larger city than they do while Akronites, Toledoans, and Daytonians have a mentality that they live in a smaller city than they actually do.

Well Ohio is a very well balanced state, each city has something unique about it. I think the 3 C's over shadow our smaller cities, but in many ways, people that live closer to the smaller cities take notice in them. I notice this around a lot of Akron's suburbs such as Cuyahoga Falls, Barberton, Portage Lakes, Fairlawn and Tallmadge.

And Toledo, Akron and Dayton all have amazing central cores. Dayton has a very nice dense skyline, Akron is doing great with new parks and condos coming downtown, and University of Akron is booming. Toledo's Marina District in the works is another great mixed use development across the river from downtown, not to mention the new arena downtown.

The smaller cities get overlooked because of our bigger ones, but they certainly hold a lot of value.