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But maybe, just maybe, you should consider that the status quo hasn't worked and mimicking areas that have been more successful might not be such a bad idea. I assume we're not going to agree on anything except that I don't know jack about Cumberland. Hopefully in 20 years rising tides have lifted all boats and I can come back and say "boo-ya, told you so." Or if Allegany and Washington Cos. decline further, well, you were right. $10/hour (or going back a decade to $7.25/hour - or 5 decades to $1/hour) and perpetual pop decline were as good as it could get.
So, what did Montgomery County do to become so successful? Simple: it located itself right next-door to the nation's capital. And it's been sucking at the teat of the federal government for as long as I've been alive, and probably a lot longer than that. Montgomery County is very good about enacting feel-good legislation that it can afford to do, because of all those high-wage federal jobs and associated contractor positions that are located just down the Red Line. And they're also very good at thinking that the rest of the state is just like them, and so any policies that they enact should make just as much sense in Allegany County as they do right there in Montgomery County.
Westsideboy is absolutely right on this. Cumberland is about as different from (for example) Bethesda as two communities can be, in many many ways. The median household income in Montgomery County as a whole is about $90,000 per year. In Bethesda, it's about $147,000. In Cumberland, it's a little less than $32,000 per year. Let that sink in for a moment. $147,000 versus $32,000.
Even at the lower county-wide level, and assuming a work-year of 2,080 hours, Montgomery County's median household income equates to over $43 per hour. (In Cumberland, it's about $15 per hour.) When that's your median income, it's easy to pat yourself on the back and congratulate yourself on your generous heart for raising the minimum wage to a level that is still far, far below what your community's median income is. And it's just as easy to pretend that all that unpleasant poverty out in places like Allegany County, where $10 an hour is a halfway-decent wage, simply doesn't exist. Or that you can wave your magic wand, raise the minimum wage without ever considering the different situations that affect different parts of the state, and sprinkle prosperity across all of Maryland like pixie dust.
I'm conservative. I'm opposed to the minimum wage on principle, as well as because I think it's economically harmful. But if we're going to have a minimum wage, it shouldn't be "one size fits all." It should be based on something like a percentage of the cost of living, and applied on a county-by-county basis. Montgomery County has the advantage of being able to be a parasite to Washington, D.C., and its policies reflect that fact. But Allegany County isn't so fortunate, and the policies that impact its economy and its way of life should reflect this fact.
I think people here are missing the forest for the trees. Understand why the minimum wage was created. Understand why it is no longer $.25/hr. I mean seriously if increasing the minimum wage was such an economic death knell for states, then why hasn't it stayed at 1933 levels? Why did states feel the need to raise the minimum wage in the past?
If low skill wages remain constant while inflation moves higher, poverty will increase which will put a strain on state resources because more and more people will need public assistance.
The average salary of computer engineers is no longer $50k/year. It is now over $100k. All wages eventually move higher to adjust for inflation. Why is it so hard to understand that the wage floor also has to rise?
Understand why the minimum wage was created.
Why is it so hard to understand that the wage floor also has to rise?
I don't think ANYONE involved doesn't want to see people earning better wages.
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...which will put a strain on state resources because more and more people will need public assistance.
This reality is already a considerable concern, right? It points out that other factors also put strain on resources.
And that rubs hard up against accepting the veracity of the 'full employment' stats. Which in turn
brings the question back to the degree to which the bottom end has an over supply of labor hours available.
Under the minimum wage legislation, businesses with 15 or more employees will follow a schedule that reaches $15 in 2025, while smaller companies will have to pay $15 starting in 2026.
This does not necessarily apply to all jobs that are minimum wage, but it does apply to many, and that is how many hours will an employee get? 20, 30? Companies have been cutting hours for years to eliminate benefits, and spread people thin, retail is famous for this. I wonder how this will play out over time.
How about training people for good jobs instead of sending everybody off to higher education that can afford it, so many of these jobs that may not need a high level of higher education, but some type of training can be filled. That's where Maryland could do a better job. Along with employer's.
How about training people for good jobs instead of sending everybody off to higher education that can afford it, so many of these jobs that may not need a high level of higher education, but some type of training can be filled. That's where Maryland could do a better job. Along with employer's.
The problem is, there will always be a need for low-skilled workers. You will always need wait staff at your favorite restaurants. You will always need grocery store clerks, workers in Home Depot or your favorite clothing store, daycare providers, etc.
Yes, most people in these industries move on to other endeavors, but as long as these public services exist, labor will be needed to run them. In an ideal world, these jobs would be filled by high school and college students. But there are too many reasons why older adults have these jobs as well.
So, while we have these low-skilled laborers, at least they should be paid enough to help keep them off of public assistance and to be able to purchase services from the very places they are employed. Henry Ford knew this and it worked out well for him and his company.
Last edited by adelphi_sky; 04-02-2019 at 08:36 AM..
I don't think ANYONE involved doesn't want to see people earning better wages.
This reality is already a considerable concern, right? It points out that other factors also put strain on resources.
And that rubs hard up against accepting the veracity of the 'full employment' stats. Which in turn
brings the question back to the degree to which the bottom end has an over supply of labor hours available.
As long as companies continue to find labor overseas, there will always be an oversupply of labor hours available. But those who are willing to work and are fortunate enough to find full-time employment (40+ hours) shouldn't have to rely on public assistance. Public assistance should not be a consequence of their contribution to society.
In addition, there are thousands of white-collar jobs moving overseas. Accounting, systems administration and engineering, programming, architecture, and basically anything that can be done remotely on a computer are in danger of being offshored. My colleagues in the IT field are in constant threat of losing their job to someone overseas.
Companies say there is a lack of qualified laborers in STEM fields. But what they really mean is that there is a lack of qualified overseas laborers. So, there are fewer upwardly mobile positions to aspire to for lower-skilled laborers. They have to compete with laid-off stateside workers as well as those qualified workers graduating in droves overseas.
As more white-collar workers find it harder to compete against lower overseas salaries, less money goes to the state to fund social services for those making a low minimum wage.
It's only going to get worse. Raising the minimum wage is only one tool to help keep the local economy from collapsing in on itself.
More white-collar jobs is the answer. But now, you're not just competing against major cities for jobs, smaller cities are raising their game. Now you have cities like Nashville, Denver, Austin, and Raleigh competing for 21st-century white-collar jobs. Not just New York, LA, Philly, DC, or Boston.
As long as companies continue to find labor overseas, there will always be an oversupply of labor hours available.
Okay... if you wanna chew on that particular bone....
how does increasing wage rates change anything in the equation for this affected population?
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But those who are willing to work and are fortunate enough to find full-time employment (40+ hours)
Okay... if you wanna chew on that particular bone....
just who in this affected population do think gets one of those 40 hour weeks?
Raising wage rates will eliminate the small remainder.
The problem is, there will always be a need for low-skilled workers. You will always need wait staff at your favorite restaurants. You will always need grocery store clerks, workers in Home Depot or your favorite clothing store, daycare providers, etc.
Yes, most people in these industries move on to other endeavors, but as long as these public services exist, labor will be needed to run them. In an ideal world, these jobs would be filled by high school and college students. But there are too many reasons why older adults have these jobs as well.
So, while we have these low-skilled laborers, at least they should be paid enough to help keep them off of public assistance and to be able to purchase services from the very places they are employed. Henry Ford knew this and it worked out well for him and his company.
What are you talking about?
There are employer's everywhere trying to hire collage graduates only for jobs that do not require a degree. And then they want to pay poverty wages for them. It's ridiculous, and was not always that way.
Mr.Rational has asked the right question. If you force employers in Western Maryland (and many other places) to pay about the county median income for burger flipping jobs, the corporations will simply hire fewer burger flippers and replace their labor by expecting more from that one person, or automating processes. This leaves large numbers of unused labor hours just sitting there. These people would literally not be able to use their labor because its value to the market is less than what businesses would be mandated to pay them. They sit idle, go on unemployment, then risk falling out of the workforce entirely.
White collar jobs are great. Skilled blue collar jobs are great. But not everyone is qualified, or suited for such work. In the real world, some workers are low skilled and not willing or able to improve this no matter how much money and brain power you throw at them.
Mr.Rational has asked the right question. If you force employers in Western Maryland (and many other places) to pay about the county median income for burger flipping jobs, the corporations will simply hire fewer burger flippers and replace their labor by expecting more from that one person, or automating processes. This leaves large numbers of unused labor hours just sitting there. These people would literally not be able to use their labor because its value to the market is less than what businesses would be mandated to pay them. They sit idle, go on unemployment, then risk falling out of the workforce entirely.
White collar jobs are great. Skilled blue collar jobs are great. But not everyone is qualified, or suited for such work. In the real world, some workers are low skilled and not willing or able to improve this no matter how much money and brain power you throw at them.
Well, like I've always been told, there's a reason why many employers have general labor type classification.
I think many of us have worked with people who got hired in at the base job and 40 years later that's what they're still doing. Give me a minute I can likely think of dozens.
You can include me in that, I started at age 30 as a classroom teacher and retired at 61 as a classroom teacher. Maybe a bit different than manufacturing (to pick one), but still.
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