Brooklyn to Boston with middle schooler (Cambridge, Quincy: rent, insurance, condos)

[yuc3318]

I'm a single mother with a seventh grader, currently living in Brooklyn and considering a job offer in Boston. Good job but much less money, so cost of living a big issue. Would like to find something that's an easy commute to Dorchester, close to public transportation, good public middle and high schools, diversity and walkability, less than $400,000. Would prefer Boston or Cambridge, but not sure of public school quality. Any other close in communities I should consider? s this even doable?

[ogre]

You may need to compromise on the urban, walking kind of area you're seeking. The first nice town that comes to mind that has some of this, and might, maybe, have some properties in your price range is Arlington. Arlington is not Brooklyn by any means, more suburban with some urban character mixed in. I think the average housing prices would be above your budget, but Arlington would be worth a look in case you can find some properties below the town's median which are the right price for you, since Arlington has at least some of the character you're seeking.

If you're prepared to make a major compromise and go with a more suburban town, I'd suggest checking out Wakefield and Braintree. Both towns have pros and cons related to how well they fit your preferences. Braintree is pure suburbia, but does have simple public transit access to Dorchester via the red line, and is likely to have some good options in your price range. Wakefield too has a suburban character but at least has a nice little downtown. Compared to Braintree, the drawbacks of Wakefield would be that property costs there will be higher, if I'm not mistaken, and the commute by public transit would be longer and more convoluted--involving a couple of transfers--than the commute from Braintree.

[NY'er lost in MA]

Dedham might be an option....

[missionhill]

Great schools in Brookline, very walkable and urban. A few miles from Dorchester and easy enough by car, otherwise you're looking at an hour on buses. Dorchester itself has some nice neighborhoods, is much more affordable, and is really diverse, but you have to figure out the Boston school system which is hard as a new arrival. Similar to Brooklyn, a lot of intelligence gathering is needed. Apparently too, the city of Boston (including Dorchester) has declining school-age children population and school enrollment is dropping--quite the opposite of conditions in NYC so one wonders why. In any case, schools are easy in Brookline. People seem to differ on Cambridge schools but Cambridge is very liveable. Arlington is great but I'd think far from work for a single parent with a school-age child.

[holden125]

What about Quincy or Milton? Quincy is just south of Dorchester and has a sizeable Asian population. It's pretty dense (not Brooklyn dense, more like Valley Stream) and has several Red Line stops. Easy to Dorchester.

Milton is more suburban (southern half almost woodsy), but also on the Red Line (albeit with a transfer at Ashmont). Very highly rated schools, but more expensive. There's a growing African American population closer to Mattapan.

Brookline is great but expensive and, though close as the crow flies, a trek to Dorchester via public transit. You need the Green line (slow and crowded) to Park St then the Red Line out to Dorchester. It would be half an hour just on the Green Line and 15-20 after that. Or, as missionhill notes, a long bus ride.

[nei]

were you sending your child to public schools in Brooklyn? I'd imagine Boston public schools would be similar in quality...

[yuc3318]

Thanks everyone. Daughter does go to public school in Brooklyn, but NYC has quite a few excellent public schools. I keep hearing that Boston has very few, is this true? I like Dorchester and would definitely consider living there, but not sure about the schools. Same with Cambridge, which would be ideal because its on the red line. Brookline seems pretty expensive and inconvenient via public transportation. I will check out Milton though. Any input on public schools in Boston and Cambridge appreciated.

[wivenhoe]

I don't think Boston has the number of excellent public schools like NYC does. Boston, being a much smaller city, is simply not able to offer the amount of exam schools as NYC. There's Boston Latin and Cambridge Rindge & Latin and some good charter schools, but it's limited to me when you compare the situation to NYC.

Within NYC, students who qualify are able to attend any of the exam schools like Stuyvesant, Bronx HS of Science, or even LaGuardia HS. Of course, the competition to get a slot at these schools can be fierce. However, if your child is able to do then they are able to get an outstanding education for free and live within the 5 boroughs of NYC.

Gifted programs are also not mandated by the MA Commonwealth. As a result, there's no Anderson, Hunter College, or equivalent. Some schools systems like Melrose may offer a gifted & talented program, but again it's not Anderson or Hunter College, in my opinion. Bear in mind, too, that these gifted & talented programs are few and far between within the state and vary widely.

The school situation is one of the reasons why many parents with school-age children decide to leave Boston and Cambridge for the suburbs like Newton where the schools are considered to be highly regarded.

To be fair, this happens in NYC too. Read Jonathan Kozol's book on Savage Inequalities. I know some of my friends in Riverdale moved to Westchester County to escape the overcrowding at PS 24 or PS 81 (which are amongst the best in the Bronx) and so their kids could go to a better school system.

After living in Riverdale for 5 years and moving back to MA this spring, I will say that it can be quite frustrating finding the right mix of housing, school situation, and quality of life for less than $300-400K. So much of the housing around Boston and communities with quality school systems cost a bomb. There's no co-op system here like in NYC, which can make living in NYC affordable for non-millionaires.

Milton might be a good alternative to Boston if you can find something within your budget.

[yuc3318]

Thanks so much Wivenhoe, you've confirmed what I'm beginning to ralize -- that it isn't really much cheaper, if at all, to live in Boston if you want to be close in, have good schools and good public transit. But the salaries are considerably lower, at least in my field. How have you found the transition? And where did you end up living?

The whole school application process in NYC is a nightmare, and way too competitive, but there are lots of good high school options beyond Stuyvesant, Hunter and Laguardia, and my co-op is affordable in a nice, close-in neighborhood (Cobble Hill). I don't think I could afford the equivalent in Boston, strangely enough. I think I'm going to have to pass up the Boston job, even though it sounds great, because its just too much of a drop in income, considering cost of housing and I'd have to buy a car.

[holden125]

Originally Posted by yuc3318

Thanks so much Wivenhoe, you've confirmed what I'm beginning to ralize -- that it isn't really much cheaper, if at all, to live in Boston if you want to be close in, have good schools and good public transit. But the salaries are considerably lower, at least in my field. How have you found the transition? And where did you end up living?

I suppose it really depends on what you mean by close-in and good public transit. When I came back to the Boston area after a number of years in NYC, I found everything here super-cheap in comparison. I was lucky-I took only a small pay cut and the income tax savings (which were huge) meant my take-home pay was the same. But my rent got cut in half. I also already had a car, and the costs of having it in Mass. are far cheaper than NYC. I saved $75 a month on insurance alone.

If, as Wivenhoe mentions, you're looking at near-in suburbs rather than in the city limits, I think it's easier to find something within reasonable commuting distance of Boston than NYC. For example, it's under 20 mins from Belmont, Winchester or Newton to Boston via commuter rail. Close-in Westchester towns like Hastings or Pelham require a longer trip and are far more expensive.

I don't think I agree with Wivenhoe that the co-op system makes NYC afforable. It's a key reason why I left. In a neighborhood like Cobble Hill (which I love), you're paying 600-700K for 2 BRs, then seriously hefty maintenance on top. Like a second, not-fully-deductible mortgage. And more often than not there's no yard and no parking. In more outlying NYC neighborhoods it's possible to get a co-op for a better price but the maintenance still makes it not so great a deal IMO.

In closer-in Boston suburbs like Newton, Belmont or Arlington there are condos in 2-family houses in the 350-450K range and they generally come with parking and some outdoor space. The condo fee generally is far lower than NYC maintenance. Obviously you're trading Cobble Hill's lifestyle for a sleepier, more suburban town. But my part of Belmont is pretty dense, with shops around the corner, and only 10 mins from Harvard Square by bus.

In your case it may make more sense to stay in NY or keep looking, but I saved a ton moving back to Mass.