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Wow. Do you have children?
I agree that some kids don't get out much but "no" American child? Not so. Indoor activities are necessary at certain times due to inclement weather. But most often, it's a parental choice OR a circumstance of where they live, age of the child and work schedules.
Yes, I do have children.
No, it is hardly a "parental choice" (unless the overwhelming majority of parents choose "indoors" or "somewhere away, organized" - which they do, so I guess... yeah, it is a parental choice which makes the likes of me who would choose otherwise ... "choose" exactly THIS. My kids are certainly not attracted to staying outside in a dead neighborhood unless I force them to, which I can only "choose" to do so much).
And no, I will not expand on this topic for the sake of not ending up with yet another treatise on CD. At least, other people have so much sense as to not waste whatever tortures them on Internet forums; they write books instead and make money. Say ...like Tiger Mom.
Anyway, unless my eyes and ears have been completely defect for the past ten years and they just "missed" all those neighborhoods bustling with children playing freely together, both in the North and in the South...we are NOT having this conversation!!
PS: Do keep in mind that I did not mean "no American child plays outdoor anymore" with "outdoors" meaning hauled/chauffeured by parent to the park or outdoor organized activity, with parent in stand-by at all times.
I meant "step in front of your house, meet child next door, play there in the front or back yard, and stay the F out of the frazzled parents' hair for at least a half an hour or so because your child behind burns to be with neighborhood friends. That's what I meant. Find me the neighborhood where that happens on a virtual daily basis and I am moving there tomorrow.
Don't have it? ... Didn't think so.
A good friend of mine took a summer long road trip around the country from Mass a couple of years ago and one of the funny things he joked to me on returning was: "first you notice how much cheaper everything is everywhere else".
Bit of exaggeration of course with high COL found in coastal cities and metro areas around the country but still, talking 'bang for the buck', Mass is tough. It gives no pleasure to say it but for a young family starting out and contemplating relocating here without a high powered income, I just gotta wonder why. Throw the weather into the mix and..................well, as to myself I was born here which offered an advantage or two though I would have much preferred something a bit south of the 40th parallel and a whole lot more west, lol.
That's what I meant. Find me the neighborhood where that happens on a virtual daily basis and I am moving there tomorrow.
Don't have it? ... Didn't think so.
Hi Syracusa. Good to see you here and congratulations on your move back to your paradise of Atlanta.
I have 2 neighborhoods for you to move to up here where that happens and another in NY. The one I left and the one I moved to and the one my brother lives in . Just this weekend I had 4 boys in my backyard shooting bb guns and playing lacrosse. All the while they were making plans for the summer. One of the boys is moving down the coast a bit and the boys are planning boating and fishing trips. All winter long the boys organized their own street hockey games. Kids from all over town (and it's a big town) would converge on the high school parking lot at a set time to have a pick up game. Same thing happened in another part of town where they would play football all fall. Recently my sons found out another boy in our neighborhood (attends a different school) had the BEST hill in town for some snowboarding and a group of them constructed a snowboard "park" out of old pallets etc. Never met this kid before but they were suddenly friends because of a common interest. Where we previously lived, any day at any time I could end up with a bunch of kids on bikes, knocking at my door to play with my boys. These 2 places are 50 miles apart and vastly different both in demographics and rural vs semi-urban. My brother in upstate New York reports the same. His girls will be out and about in the neighborhood (they are much younger than my boys). They swing on swings, play in their playhouse, and have lots of pretend play with friends. They come to my house to visit and they are outside, looking for the little girl next door to play with.
Maybe we are just weirdos with weird kids but I think CCCathy is correct. Allowing time and taking part in free play (what an oxymoron) is often about parental choice and modeling behaviors. I think all the families have something in common- we all enjoy the outdoors. I think that translates to kids who want to be out and active and they found other kids who enjoyed the same.
I hope you find this in Atlanta. No worries though the "free play" movement is coming and parents will be organizing spontaneous get togethers to be sure their children experience that. Someone will do a study that will prove the importance of it in relation to high SAT scores .......
I hope you find this in Atlanta. No worries though the "free play" movement is coming and parents will be organizing spontaneous get togethers to be sure their children experience that. Someone will do a study that will prove the importance of it in relation to high SAT scores .......
Beachcomber,
With all due respect (and I do mean "respect"), I think your post is more defensive and sarcastic than it needs to be.
No, Atlanta is not a Paradise. Luxembourg and Monaco are Paradises.
But guess what? Average Joes can't afford Boston (a real city, but nothing else), let alone an actual Paradise.
What Atlanta is - it's a sort of a settlement that offers some urban experiences to the average Joe, all while NOT stripping him of his last shred of dignity.
The questions the OP is asking indicate exactly that: places like Boston rob many people off of their dignity. If you are not some cutting-edge scientist or high-tech guru paid loads of money for your services, then you're hunted by a "not good enough" feeling all your life (see the OP's qustions) and spit out by the Big City all the way out in overall undesirable areas, location wise, and in quite depressing-to-live in houses.
As for Atlanta (or a few other similar places) it is one of the very few so-called "Big Cities" in the US that is still affordable. It has many, many flaws and many, many downsides - but at the end of the day, average people need to pick their devils, pay their bills and live their mediocre lives.
When all is said and done, life in Atlanta (or other similar places) is simply easier for a regular family that does not have grad degrees in high-paying fields, two power salaries and tremendous amounts of energy to run, run and run some more just to keep up with the ferocious cutting-edge competition in their fields. Some may enjoy that kind of alpha-life but many will find it extremely exhausting and with few ultimate life rewards.
As for children playing freely in their neighborhood, on a regular basis, I am NOT going to expand, as promised. I will just say that your examples, if they truly are as bright, pastoral and idyllic as you describe them, are the painfully rare exceptions to the rule EVERYWHERE in the US - and they simply DO NOT count. So no, I am not counting on finding THAT in Atlanta because I learned that THAT can no longer be found anywhere in the US, generally speaking, unless you stumble onto some kind of incredible strike of luck.
I would vote for saving like you would have to for down payment.
Then decide what to do.
You may find that taking your money saved and buying a house outright for cash in another location may make you happier. HUD Homes | HUD Homes For Sale | HUD Houses
I bought a 3000 square foot house in Maine for less than what many people need for a down payment in Mass.
And if you don't mind going on an adventure to different parts of the country it is even possible to find houses for hundreds or even low thousands of dollars.
The questions the OP is asking indicate exactly that: places like Boston rob many people off of their dignity. If you are not some cutting-edge scientist or high-tech guru paid loads of money for your services, then you're hunted by a "not good enough" feeling all your life (see the OP's qustions) and spit out by the Big City all the way out in overall undesirable areas, location wise, and in quite depressing-to-live in houses.
Syracusa--
Sorry for your unhappy experience in Boston, but let me assure you that your feelings of inferiority were all in YOUR mind. If only a place like Lexington, etc would do with only 4000 sq ft houses to fit your bill, then excuse me, but you are a striver and a wannabe. The rest of us do just fine. Enjoy HOTlanta.
With all due respect (and I do mean "respect"), I think your post is more defensive and sarcastic than it needs to be.
No, Atlanta is not a Paradise. Luxembourg and Monaco are Paradises.
But guess what? Average Joes can't afford Boston (a real city, but nothing else), let alone an actual Paradise.
What Atlanta is - it's a sort of a settlement that offers some urban experiences to the average Joe, all while NOT stripping him of his last shred of dignity.
As for children playing freely in their neighborhood, on a regular basis, I am NOT going to expand, as promised. I will just say that your examples, if they truly are as bright, pastoral and idyllic as you describe them, are the painfully rare exceptions to the rule EVERYWHERE in the US - and they simply DO NOT count. So no, I am not counting on finding THAT in Atlanta because I learned that THAT can no longer be found anywhere in the US, generally speaking, unless you stumble onto some kind of incredible strike of luck.
That's all.
Syracusa, I suppose the Atlanta paradise comment did have some sarcasm in it but was not meant to be insulting to you. I apologize if you took it that way. We have had some excellent conversation in the past and I honestly think we are often on the same page in regard to what we want for our children. The rest is neither defensive, sarcastic or idealized. I love my life and have raised my children in a very old fashioned manner- I actually had a "power mom" tell me she that it was "cute" how we did things.
I have a bachelors from a state college. That and a couple bucks will get me a coffee at Dunkin Donuts. My husband is an average Joe. Worked for a big company (no college degree) and struck out on his own. He owns a service business that has afforded us a nice lifestyle. It wasn't always that way. We bought a home in a crappy town so I could be a stay at home Mom. I drove a crappy car for a period of time until we could afford better. I made do so I could be home with my kids. No judgement on the best choice: I have 2 best friends. One is in international finance and the other is a stay at home mom. In my mind, we have all chosen the same path: to do what is best for our family. We all have the same values. We do not worry about keeping up with the Jones'.
Maybe the fact that we are not all highly educated and overthink everything is the reason we allow our kids to just play?
The questions the OP is asking indicate exactly that: places like Boston rob many people off of their dignity. If you are not some cutting-edge scientist or high-tech guru paid loads of money for your services, then you're hunted by a "not good enough" feeling all your life (see the OP's qustions) and spit out by the Big City all the way out in overall undesirable areas, location wise, and in quite depressing-to-live in houses.
Wow. This statement is at best vaguely insulting and at worst, fairly sad. I hope you aren't teaching your children that their self-worth is to be derived from living on a cul-de-sac in a newly-constructed suburban house.
Wow. This statement is at best vaguely insulting and at worst, fairly sad. I hope you aren't teaching your children that their self-worth is to be derived from living on a cul-de-sac in a newly-constructed suburban house.
I think the poster is just trying to convey the authoritarian attitude of Boston.Basically,keep your place you been assigned but work out all the problems for the elite.
You know,class warfare.
My FI wants very much to buy a house and doesn't much want to get married without buying a house first.
I'd work on this first. Are there protections in the MA law afforded to unmarried co-owners of a house? (I haven't lived in MA in years so I don't know).
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and a group of them constructed a snowboard "park" out of old pallets etc. Never met this kid before but they were suddenly friends because of a common interest. Where we previously lived, any day at any time I could end up with a bunch of kids on bikes, knocking at my door to play with my boys. These 2 places are 50 miles apart and vastly different both in demographics and rural vs semi-urban. My brother in upstate New York reports the same. His girls will be out and about in the neighborhood (they are much younger than my boys). They swing on swings, play in their playhouse, and have lots of pretend play with friends. They come to my house to visit and they are outside, looking for the little girl next door to play with. 
