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I don't doubt your kid's elementary school has great teachers, but most families still prefer to live in Arlington over Somerville for other reasons. Great teachers will have a hard time teaching your smart kid if they need to spend most of their time and energy on the 75% of kids who just don't give a damn. You're screwed if your kid becomes best friends with a hoodlum kid who lives in a housing project. The chances of that happening are 10x greater in Somerville than in Arlington. Diversity is great, but not at the expense of my own kid's future.
EDIT:
semiurbanite: I was just reading what I wrote again and I'm sorry if it sounded harsh. I wasn't trying to attack you in any way, just stating my opinion which is very different from yours. I've been reading your posts which repeat that same story about Somerville test scores adjusted for low-income students for some time now. The fact is, those low-income kids still dominate the classroom by a 2:1 ratio and that's the real reason why many families prefer Arlington over Somerville. Will your kid grow up just fine and get into a good college? Probably. But I wouldn't use my kid as a guinea pig in a school system that's still undergoing gentrification. I'd rather play it safe and raise my kid in a town with an "established" school system. Especially if I'm paying the same amount of money for a house in either town.
sarascout: Just so you know what we're discussing, it's like comparing the school systems of JC and Short Hills. Trade-off of good established schools in Short Hills for the quicker commute in JC. I know many upper middle class families are staying in JC and taking a chance on the public schools because of its convenience to NYC. If you personally wouldn't consider living there, then you can rule out Somerville too. And no, McNair doesn't count
No offense taken, your points sum up the attitude I hear from everyone the decides to leave without even really considering staying. The only problem is, as a parent here I can tell you that it's just not true. Where do you get this 2:1 ratio? Look at the data for the three West Somerville elementary schools - it's not even 1:1. As for teachers, when a teaching position opens, we get flooded with applicants from great young teachers that would love to teach here - we are literally able to pick the cream of the crop to teach here now due to our desirable location and accelerating improvements. If all the teacher's effort was spent on the "75%" then I wouldn't be able to show you the data I posted earlier showing MCAS SGP eclipsing Arlington.
As for "housing project", well I guess that was just a generalization on your part of people who live in low income housing, so apology accepted i suppose. You would be surprised how many goods kids live in low income housing, especially the immigrant families - they actually aren't hoodlums at all.
Btw, according to friends that live there, Arlington also isn't all that established once you get past elementary school.
I think they are about the same commute times, so I am not sure why you are being argumentative. .
I am not being argumentative. You made a statement I whole heatedly disagree with. My "Really" was genuine. I don't even think the commutes are close. I think followed it up with statement acknowledging the bad traffic in Alewife but countered with Wellington traffic issues.
At the end of the day, i don't think it matters. No need to be defensive, we will agree to disagree.
Sarascout, where did you live when you were in Boston area? You mention you were sad to leave that place - what did you like about it the most? Your wish to live by the coast - is it to "finally be on the coast" or "to explore other areas of MA"? (or both? Or something else?...)
And I'm okay with renting for a year or two...so that's why I'm not overly concerned with prices...I keep hearing there might be a big drop next year so I'd rather not buy quite yet, but would if the timing was just right.
Interesting! Who sais that? (Actually, I am all for it, want to buy more real estate myself )
As for "housing project", well I guess that was just a generalization on your part of people who live in low income housing, so apology accepted i suppose. You would be surprised how many goods kids live in low income housing, especially the immigrant families - they actually aren't hoodlums at all.
There are good and bad apples everywhere, but have you ever read the police reports or gone to the crimereports website that the SPD contributes to? Neighborhoods with concentrated public housing have a much higher rate of petty crime perpetrated by teens. I got whacked a few weeks ago for a few quarters on my dashboard, cut the soft top of my jeep just for a few bucks.
I wouldn't want my kids hanging out with them in school or otherwise. I don't feel deprived having not grown up in the city as far as this aspect of city life...
No offense taken, your points sum up the attitude I hear from everyone the decides to leave without even really considering staying. The only problem is, as a parent here I can tell you that it's just not true. Where do you get this 2:1 ratio? Look at the data for the three West Somerville elementary schools - it's not even 1:1. As for teachers, when a teaching position opens, we get flooded with applicants from great young teachers that would love to teach here - we are literally able to pick the cream of the crop to teach here now due to our desirable location and accelerating improvements. If all the teacher's effort was spent on the "75%" then I wouldn't be able to show you the data I posted earlier showing MCAS SGP eclipsing Arlington.
As for "housing project", well I guess that was just a generalization on your part of people who live in low income housing, so apology accepted i suppose. You would be surprised how many goods kids live in low income housing, especially the immigrant families - they actually aren't hoodlums at all.
Btw, according to friends that live there, Arlington also isn't all that established once you get past elementary school.
I didn't do a lot of research before posting. I typed west somerville into great schools and the first hit was West Somerville Neighborhood School which had 63% free or reduced price lunch. I know a lot of these low-income households are made up of hardworking immigrants and not freeloaders, but the percentage is still significant compared to say, 6% free/reduced price lunch at Brackett. Oh, and I wasn't praising Arlington either - it was just used as an example by others so I went along with it. Personally I wouldn't send my kids to Arlington schools either. I just don't think the quality of their school system is as great as their test scores indicate, but that's another story.
I do applaud you and other area professors for choosing to stay in Somerville. Every gritty area needs early adopters in order to turn around its school system. It's not going to happen overnight or even within a decade. I'm glad to hear you're happy where you are. I like working in dense neighborhoods, but hate living in them.
Who is confusing who here? According to Google maps, the shortest possible walk from Belmont to Harvard is 42 minutes, and that's if you live right on the edge here: https://goo.gl/maps/R4Hw2
I have a good friend that lives in Arlington, works with me in the same building, and I have 45 minutes more time with my family every day due to my shorter commute.
And schools - the reality is that most people have no clue how to gauge a school. Most people look at a score on greatschools.com, and average MCAS scores, which actually says nothing about the school except for that is it demographically homogenous. What many Somerville parents know today, and which will become common knowledge in 5 years - is that the West Somerville schools are now AT LEAST on par with the elementary schools in Arlington. The influx of very highly educated families into the schools since 2008 is making a huge difference. The parents of my children's friends are non-profit founders, Harvard and MIT faculty and staff, and software and biotech workers with great commutes to Kendall (like me). But enough with the anecdotes - here is some DOE data: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1O...ew?usp=sharing
And click play here (this doesn't even include the exceptional new 2014 data): mcasdata
Call me fast walker but I used to walk and be on the Bratlle St. in 20 minutes unless I get stuck going around due to construction or an accident. Yes, some days I might have needed 25-30 but, really, point is that Belmont is very close to Cambridge, and every way you try to slice it, it is super convenient. You can walk to Cambridge, You can bike to Cambridge. You can drive to Cambridge. You can take bus to Cambridge. You can take commuter train as well.
BTW Google maps will make it longer just as MBTA maps do as well, because they go with lowest/slowest common denominator when walking/driving. This is exactly why I needed 3-4 minutes and not 10 minutes to get to bus stop as well (as per MBTA map).
Again, I put this walking info out because many people like you, do not understand that until 1850 or so, Belmont was Cambridge, West Cambridge to be precise. Naturally it was always its extension. They share long common border.
So, if you are working anywhere in Cambridge, and can afford to swing it in Belmont, it is not bad place to be. I would estimate that almost half of its working population works in Cambridge, around 25% are doctors and researchers in the Longwood area, and rests commutes to Boston or Waltham/Lexington office parks.
Sorry you feel poked about Somerville. When there is at least two consecutive generation of kids who went there from first to last grade, and graduated with higher scores comparable with its neighbors, I would be first to wholeheartedly recommend Somerville Public Schools. That time might come soon, but not here yet. Is Somerville level 1 district yet? Not even Lexington is level 1, but Belmont has it for a while now. Very few districts in the state have achieved it.
I would also urge you to tamper your enthusiasm for said schools because as a younger parent you really have no clue what to expect in middle and high schools. Data is one thing, real life another. Most elementary schools chug along fine.
Real quality of schools district, and strength of its students and teachers, is always more apparent in the later years. Once when you go through all of it with your kids, and if you do, I would be very interested to hear what you have to say and what kind of experiences your kids had. But, you really need to have older kids and more experiences IMHO, before you can make claims like you do about Somerville Public Schools.
Is Somerville level 1 district yet? Not even Lexington is level 1, but Belmont has it for a while now. Very few districts in the state have achieved it.
Level 1 means the school or district is exceeding its goals, which is happening in leaps and bounds here. You cant compare schools across districts based on level since schools have different goals set for them. That's the whole point of SGP scores - to level the field when doing comparisons. The school my kids are in is actually Level 1, and so is Somerville High believe it or not...
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingeorge
Real quality of schools district, and strength of its students and teachers, is always more apparent in the later years.
Agreed, and knowing our neighbors with kids in the higher grades is a big part of the reason we are staying. But, it is so much more about the home environment than the school itself. This is why the only thing that consistently correlates with student success is eocio-economic status, not the actual school. Too many parents give credit to a schools system, as if it is going to make their kids smarter. The reality is, and the data supports, that if you take a student from Belmont and put them in AP classes at a lower ranked high schools, they will do just as well in either school.
Oh - and yes you can walk from Belmont to Brattle street quite quickly, but it's another 20 mins to Harvard square from there.
Last edited by semiurbanite; 11-03-2014 at 02:02 PM..
I wasn't praising Arlington either - it was just used as an example by others so I went along with it. Personally I wouldn't send my kids to Arlington schools either. I just don't think the quality of their school system is as great as their test scores indicate, but that's another story.
Interesting - so then what is that opinion based on if you don't live there?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parsec
I didn't do a lot of research before posting. I typed west somerville into great schools and the first hit was West Somerville Neighborhood School which had 63% free or reduced price lunch.
You will see these numbers changing pretty significantly in lower grades. For example, 28% of the kindergartners coming into our school are low income this year. To be honest, I don't really want to see that number go down any more than it already has, that's what make this the community I choose to live in. Unfortunately it will probably continue, living in the zip code that has appreciated the most in the entire state over the last 5 and also 10 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parsec
Every gritty area needs early adopters in order to turn around its school system. It's not going to happen overnight or even within a decade. I'm glad to hear you're happy where you are. I like working in dense neighborhoods, but hate living in them.
Umm, the only people that call it gritty these days are people that haven't been here for 10 years. Recent write-ups over the last few months:
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