MA Real Estate is CRAZY (Boston, Springfield: live, vs, store)

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

I think everyone else reading this thread has sufficient reading comprehension to not need to ask this.

It's not me that has the reading comprehension issue, apparently. We were discussing starting salaries in NEWTON. Not the income of command staff, cops with 10+ years seniority, or those working 100 hours a week.



If they are starting at $55k in NEWTON, I'd guess your town would be paying somewhere in the 40s. The median household income for Dartmouth is $77K. That does not buy a $350,000 home.

[porterhouse]

https://www.ft.com/content/91122596-...f-ee390057b8c9

“The top cities rise because they are where the jobs are (job creation is also incredibly bifurcated). Yet house prices in those cities have risen much faster than wages themselves. That has, in turn, made it harder and harder for middle-class people to live in such places...I’ve lived through four economic cycles, and I’ve never seen a slump like we’re seeing in the New York City market that didn’t spread to the rest of the country”

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by massnative71

If they are starting at $55k in NEWTON, I'd guess your town would be paying somewhere in the 40s. The median household income for Dartmouth is $77K. That does not buy a $350,000 home.

154k does however, 2x that wage. A single person, especially one starting out, certainly isn't going to be buying a house. I don't know anyone that was wanting to buy a house in their 20s. Certainly a person in their 20s isn't buying one very often as a single person.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by timberline742

154k does however, 2x that wage. A single person, especially one starting out, certainly isn't going to be buying a house. I don't know anyone that was wanting to buy a house in their 20s. Certainly a person in their 20s isn't buying one very often as a single person.

77K is the median HOUSEHOLD income, total for all members of each household and all ages. Single people starting out would typically earn much less than that.



Bought my first place when I was 28 (was single), on my 3rd now. That was not the norm for most of my friends at the time, many of whom preferred to spend their money on fancy cars, phones, going out every night, etc. But a few did buy as well. Point is, it was plenty possible back then in the 2000s. Today I probably couldn't if I was at that stage in life, not in Eastern MA anyway.

[timberline742]

But that's going to include retirees, etc and people who bought the houses 30 years ago. My mother's income is virtually nothing, but she (they at the time) bought the house in 1969, so including people like that in what you're looking at when trying to make sense of the economics doesn't make any sense. I'd wager if you look at the household incomes of people who bought in the last 5 years its a very different story.


I don't actually think single people are making much less than that. The single people I know in places like Marshfield and Plymouth make much more than 77k. And of course owning reduces flexibility, which is pretty critical for career advancement for a young person. Being able to move to different states/regions in an instant is fairly critical for advancement these days in lots of fields. I'd highly recommend against anyone in their 20s buying a place.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by timberline742

But that's going to include retirees, etc and people who bought the houses 30 years ago. My mother's income is virtually nothing, but she (they at the time) bought the house in 1969, so including people like that in what you're looking at when trying to make sense of the economics doesn't make any sense. I'd wager if you look at the household incomes of people who bought in the last 5 years its a very different story.


I don't actually think single people are making much less than that. The single people I know in places like Marshfield and Plymouth make much more than 77k.

I find it very hard to believe that the average person in the Southcoast area (that the poster was referencing) in their 20s or 30s is making more than 77K. Even in the Boston area, most do not earn that much.

Originally Posted by timberline742

And of course owning reduces flexibility, which is pretty critical for career advancement for a young person. Being able to move to different states/regions in an instant is fairly critical for advancement these days in lots of fields. I'd highly recommend against anyone in their 20s buying a place.

In some fields, yes. However, you still have your IT people, nurses, tradesmen, public servants... Most of that type are set for life and have a low likelihood of relocating out of the area. 10 or 15 years ago, they still had options in the RE market. Today, not so much.

[johngolf]

I am one of those folks that bought into MA (Andover and North Reading) in the early 80's and made a killing when I sold in 2001. Thank you MA.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by handy99

I think one thing we all have to understand is there is no "normal, average or median" person or household. Every situation is different. In MA. we have many multi-generational families where some money was passed on - example, we did well in our work so we helped our children make down payments on their first houses. That made them affordable. The hardest thing in life is often getting over that first hump (the down payment, first house, etc.)....

Yes there are a million variables there. Still doesn't detract from the main point of this thread though, that if you are like one of the majority of us who get no help from our family and are solely reliant on W2 income from our job; housing is becoming considerably out of reach for most of Eastern Mass.

[BostonBornMassMade]

Originally Posted by handy99

Starting people don't buy even 350K houses. I know a guy driving uber for the money to get into the Police Acad.
He's surely not looking for a 350K house. He is living in his parents house and then will probably get an apt.

Another guy I know who works very hard makes 35K in his job but does outside work (contracting, buying fixer-uppers, etc.) and makes an extra 25 a year doing that. He bought a duplex (years ago - 250K) and lives in 1/2 of it and has plenty of disposable income.

I think one thing we all have to understand is there is no "normal, average or median" person or household. Every situation is different. In MA. we have many multi-generational families where some money was passed on - example, we did well in our work so we helped our children make down payments on their first houses. That made them affordable. The hardest thing in life is often getting over that first hump (the down payment, first house, etc.)....

MA. is more expensive for a vast number of reasons. We can start with:

1. Desirable - especially where mass transit is available.
2. Safe - 1/3 the gun violence (for example) of some other states.
3. Best health care in the USA or close. Everyone covered.
4. Best Education in the USA..or close....anyone can get a decent education.
5. Safer and more efficient building and remodeling standards - you can build a house in FL. for almost 1/2 the cost per sq. ft. - but it doesn't pay off when you have to heat it in a cold winter.
6. Access to water - always adds to the relatively price of land
7. Access to airports and the entire world - the same!
8. Relatively nice and tolerant atmosphere - maybe the most civilized of the states (IMHO).
9. Compact (easy to get to other places without vast drives).....

Realtors will always tell you location, location and location. MA happens to be a good location for many. Sure, it's not "fun and sun" or "the sunny place for Shady People (Fl)", but it has a flavor that many appreciate.

The entire Boston area is one of those places where Real Estate is off-the-charts. At the same time I have a friend who is single and works for the PO and has lived in Boston his entire life, so it can't be too bad.

It’s not that desirable as you make it seem. Just isn’t. It’s desirable if you have a ton of money. Not really desirable to the middle class, better for the upper middle class and I guess the poor/working class. It’s been clear that since the 1990s. Native Massachusetts residents have been moving out replaced largely by immigrants and to a lesser extent wealthy people moving into the Boston area, metro west in particular. Native Massachusites who would be middle class elsewhere absolutely move away in large numbers so that they can go live a middle class life. If not UPM class you might as well live anywhere. Grossly unequal state.

Side note: most civil and pleasant people?? Are we talking about the same state??

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

It’s not that desirable as you make it seem. Just isn’t. It’s desirable if you have a ton of money. Not really desirable to the middle class, better for the upper middle class and I guess the poor/working class. It’s been clear that since the 1990s. Native Massachusetts residents have been moving out replaced largely by immigrants and to a lesser extent wealthy people moving into the Boston area, metro west in particular. Native Massachusites who would be middle class elsewhere absolutely move away in large numbers so that they can go live a middle class life. If not UPM class you might as well live anywhere. Grossly unequal state.

Side note: most civil and pleasant people?? Are we talking about the same state??

Pretty much. The single family home in the safe town with the good school system and easy commute to the Boston jobs isn't affordable to the middle class. The point I keep trying to make is that this describes metro Boston, not Massachusetts. Outside of rush hour, you can get to Boston from more affordable places. Springfield to Fenway Park is only 90 miles. Falmouth is 80 miles. The median house in Longmeadow is sub-$400K. The median house in East Falmouth is sub-$400K.