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No ocean, no fitness club (that I know of) that has a pool, and a lot of loud, rich NYers throwing their money around, plus a transient population due to academia. But it's fine. So is Southampton, so is Williamsburg, Haydenville, Hatfield, Hadley, S. Hadley, even Easthampton is coming along. I'd stay out of Sunderland though due to student apartments and drunk student drivers. Good jobs are scarce and that's usually the reason that people move away.
I can't wait to go to Faces at the Hampshire Mall --and hope it has the same quirky one of a kind stuff that they've always been known for.
Jobs.......these days MANY are on the Internet. Then there is the entire Universe of Retail (cars, real estate, etc).
Many area residents work in the insurance and financial industry......
No, it's not the Bay Area, but consider the location (bear, fox and even Moose in the backyard), I'd say it is better than most places.
It's not where people go to get rich....and leave. More like where people go to live. Although the Bueno y Sano dude IS probably getting rich (and deserves to).....
The worst thing about W. Mass. is the weather. 12 days in a row in May we didn't see the Sun. Then again, that means rain and moisture so for those who like green this is the place!
Given how soulless much of the USA has become there is a least a bit of reality in these parts....and I'm not talking rich college students, etc. - even the less well off people are usually fairly well educated, hard working and somewhat Salt of The Earth.
I think the Y in Noho has a very good pool...but maybe that's not the kind of health club you mean.....
I wonder where those rich NY'ers are? All my neighbors and contacts are generally people from around here who made it here (in business, etc.) or else worked in the Boston area and then moved out to retire. I know some folks from NY but they certainly aren't full of money...more like they moved up decades ago to get "back to the land" or in a more rural setting.
Much of downtown spring is walkable. I'd also point out that there's better food access in down town Springfield vs Northampton. AC produce comes to mind. Theres the delis of the south end, Delaneys is opening soon, rumors of a health good store etc. You have plenty of restaurants in Northampton but no supermarkets.
Stop and Shop on King, River Valley Co-op a bit further North and they are opening a 2nd place at the Easthampton/Northampton Line.
As you probably know, distances here are very close. From mid-Southampton to Northampton takes me about 13 minutes. I'm not sure out-of-townies understand that.
I am be at the Apple Store in Holyoke in 15 minutes including walking inside.
Not to say we measure places due to those things alone, but they tie into lack of traffic and not having to live a life on the road, So many people are accustomed to major traffic a lot of the time...and going distances to get things.
We work at home and it's amazing how few miles we put on the vehicles these days. As I tell the wife, a good day is a day you spend as little time as possible in a car!
Jobs.......these days MANY are on the Internet. Then there is the entire Universe of Retail (cars, real estate, etc).
Many area residents work in the insurance and financial industry......
No, it's not the Bay Area, but consider the location (bear, fox and even Moose in the backyard), I'd say it is better than most places.
It's not where people go to get rich....and leave. More like where people go to live. Although the Bueno y Sano dude IS probably getting rich (and deserves to).....
The worst thing about W. Mass. is the weather. 12 days in a row in May we didn't see the Sun. Then again, that means rain and moisture so for those who like green this is the place!
Given how soulless much of the USA has become there is a least a bit of reality in these parts....and I'm not talking rich college students, etc. - even the less well off people are usually fairly well educated, hard working and somewhat Salt of The Earth.
I think the Y in Noho has a very good pool...but maybe that's not the kind of health club you mean.....
I wonder where those rich NY'ers are? All my neighbors and contacts are generally people from around here who made it here (in business, etc.) or else worked in the Boston area and then moved out to retire. I know some folks from NY but they certainly aren't full of money...more like they moved up decades ago to get "back to the land" or in a more rural setting.
I lived in WMass my entire life until 20 years ago when I moved to EMass for a while. But my ex and I were both fed up with WMass back then. Lack of jobs (not many internet jobs back then), NYers coming in and buying up all the property, locals priced out by gentrification. Yes, your neighbors came from the Boston area or NY--most of the ordinary Northampton residents were pushed out twenty years or more ago. The mouths of the NYers and Bostonians used to gape open at those people who actually came from Northampton because almost everyone was a transplant.
I think the quality of life is great and for retirees who can afford it, there's a lot to do. I'm another retiree who can't afford to move back. My retired friend who has a small house in Easthampton wouldn't be able to afford a decent apartment if she sold her house. The apartments for retirees are expensive luxury apartments. Great--if you made your money in NYC or Boston. As usual, not very good for locals.
WMass is the best part of MA--well, now that I've seen places like Newburyport, I'd say maybe WMass is the second best part of MA. Yet a lot of people in Boston have never heard of us. Or they think we're talking about the Berkshires! Why would anyone ask if WMass was bad? (We tried to build a moat and pull up the bridge but they still kept coming.)
Within a half dozen miles of Tanglewood is the only place I've ever noticed a concentration of New Yorkers in Massachusetts. Even there, they're outnumbered by Bostonians.
Berkshires attracts lots of music lovers and patrons of other arts from New York--for Tanglewood, Jacobs Pillow, Mass MOCA, and many of them have second homes in the area. It always seems like the Boston people tend toward the coast north and south and to New Hampshire. But I could be wrong!
Berkshires attracts lots of music lovers and patrons of other arts from New York--for Tanglewood, Jacobs Pillow, Mass MOCA, and many of them have second homes in the area. It always seems like the Boston people tend toward the coast north and south and to New Hampshire. But I could be wrong!
Yes! There is an easy route up to the Tanglewood area through W. CT, so there are New Yorkers there - need I mention "BeetleJuice"? (rural CT setting, probably supposed to be near Torrington).
I know a New Yorker from a mile away....(including many friends). If one wants to see and hear New Yorkers, head up the Pocono Mountains....or Catskills for that matter.
I'm from the burbs of Philly so moving up to W. MA. was not a price shock at all - but I did study the income levels and no doubt they are much lower than NJ and the other places I spent my career. In the scheme of that (most people these days do come from bigger places as that is where the population is!), the prices were not off the charts.
But we learned an interesting lesson about that. We bought our house for what was a low/average price back in the burbs of Philly. Soon after I saw a Real Estate ad about the township (S.Hamton, E Hampton) which gave the range of houses sold in the last quarter! Well, the higher number was exactly what we paid.
Totally true that about 1/2 our neighbors made their money in the Boston or CT areas...but 1/2 of them didn't. They were/are IT or Retail owners or Real Estate related or otherwise in this area.
To a philly boy like me, the "natives" are not strange or different at all.....that is, when we meet locals they are not some different breed than those who worked in Boston or elsewhere...probably due the influence of the colleges. I've seen more dialect and class differences in Philly than here.
It's really not cheap to live anywhere these days....not making excuses, MA will generally be a bit higher than most due to health care being covered and many other such things (MA. tends to rate high in most every metric like education, etc.). In a sense you get what you pay for but if you can't afford a house or apt you don't.
There is a shortage of housing, IMHO, due to the Recession. Basically all construction stopped about 2006 and we are at least a decade behind.
We have looked to downsize but there is nothing available - or, more accurately, we can get a place 1/2 the size for the same price! Smaller places are really expensive per sq. ft, larger houses less so.
We have some family obligations here at this point but if we had our druthers we might be in Tiverton, Westport or the S. Coast area (even RI)....Ocean, Bays and a totally different climate.
Newburyport is all and well, but I boat off off RI and when I look at the water temps N. Of Boston is usually 8+ degree colder.
Yes! There is an easy route up to the Tanglewood area through W. CT, so there are New Yorkers there - need I mention "BeetleJuice"? (rural CT setting, probably supposed to be near Torrington).
I know a New Yorker from a mile away....(including many friends). If one wants to see and hear New Yorkers, head up the Pocono Mountains....or Catskills for that matter.
I'm from the burbs of Philly so moving up to W. MA. was not a price shock at all - but I did study the income levels and no doubt they are much lower than NJ and the other places I spent my career. In the scheme of that (most people these days do come from bigger places as that is where the population is!), the prices were not off the charts.
But we learned an interesting lesson about that. We bought our house for what was a low/average price back in the burbs of Philly. Soon after I saw a Real Estate ad about the township (S.Hamton, E Hampton) which gave the range of houses sold in the last quarter! Well, the higher number was exactly what we paid.
Totally true that about 1/2 our neighbors made their money in the Boston or CT areas...but 1/2 of them didn't. They were/are IT or Retail owners or Real Estate related or otherwise in this area.
To a philly boy like me, the "natives" are not strange or different at all.....that is, when we meet locals they are not some different breed than those who worked in Boston or elsewhere...probably due the influence of the colleges. I've seen more dialect and class differences in Philly than here.
It's really not cheap to live anywhere these days....not making excuses, MA will generally be a bit higher than most due to health care being covered and many other such things (MA. tends to rate high in most every metric like education, etc.). In a sense you get what you pay for but if you can't afford a house or apt you don't.
There is a shortage of housing, IMHO, due to the Recession. Basically all construction stopped about 2006 and we are at least a decade behind.
We have looked to downsize but there is nothing available - or, more accurately, we can get a place 1/2 the size for the same price! Smaller places are really expensive per sq. ft, larger houses less so.
We have some family obligations here at this point but if we had our druthers we might be in Tiverton, Westport or the S. Coast area (even RI)....Ocean, Bays and a totally different climate.
Newburyport is all and well, but I boat off off RI and when I look at the water temps N. Of Boston is usually 8+ degree colder.
Newburyport is like heaven to me. I have also enjoyed Bristol, RI when I have visited. I think both have that WMass vibe that I'm used to but neither one is as overrun with students and NYers. The shortage of housing is also due to the fact that the developers make more money building luxury housing. My Easthampton friend, for instance, is retired now and would like to sell her house but even with the profit from the house, she wouldn't be able to afford the new luxury apartments that are getting built.
Remember what they did to Atkins. Condos. Tons of expensive luxury condos for retirees. Maybe our area is cheap for Bostonians & NYers but it's gotten too expensive for most of us locals who worked at regular jobs. I hear prices in Southampton have gone through the roof!
Oh well. One thing for sure, change is inevitable. WMass is still a great place to live, even better if you have a lot of money.
Newburyport is like heaven to me. I have also enjoyed Bristol, RI when I have visited. I think both have that WMass vibe that I'm used to but neither one is as overrun with students and NYers. The shortage of housing is also due to the fact that the developers make more money building luxury housing. My Easthampton friend, for instance, is retired now and would like to sell her house but even with the profit from the house, she wouldn't be able to afford the new luxury apartments that are getting built.
Remember what they did to Atkins. Condos. Tons of expensive luxury condos for retirees. Maybe our area is cheap for Bostonians & NYers but it's gotten too expensive for most of us locals who worked at regular jobs. I hear prices in Southampton have gone through the roof!
Oh well. One thing for sure, change is inevitable. WMass is still a great place to live, even better if you have a lot of money.
Something that needs to be considered with housing costs these days are the building codes.
It used to be that folks could sneak in under the radar - example....a lot could be had for 60K and building was as little as 120 sf, so you could have a new ranch house of 1400 sf for 240K or so...which is somewhat affordable to a couple or small family or even a slightly upper-middle class single.
But today it costs $200 or a SF for basic construction....very strict building codes and more expensive septic systems.....add in property taxes and the budget is much higher. So even someone who did some of their own work and was careful would have over 300K invested in the simplest of new houses. If it's builder and you add profit, that's $379 for the low end of a new single home.
Down where we winter in Florida you can get a basic house built for $120 a sq ft - nothing fancy. A cheaper lot might be $50 or 60K and a livable existing house in a decent neighborhood is about $220K. Electric rates are about 1/2 the price, although house insurance is high.
Short of a trailer park or some lucky apartment or small house rental you just won't find much in truly affordable houses any more. I have friends that are very smart and frugal so what they did was build a simple duplex, lived in one side and the renter in the other side made it so they could live cheap. Then there is AirBNB and other tricks where a person could perhaps get more house than they could otherwise.
But, yeah, Florida is just the same as many areas too...where you need to "come with money" in order to be able to live a decent lifestyle. I'd say the same is true most everywhere that people truly want to be.
In my volunteer positions I get around and see how the other 1/2 live....thousands of people in wealthy counties in Florida are living in ancient parked trailer homes or motor homes. I deliver (meals on wheels) to people who live in actual sheds behind a run-down house. I'm talking 12x16 with a hotplate and no A/C.
Off topic, but slightly relates...they say in Florida that 46% of people are not making it (United Way survey). That's a LOT of people.....13 million or so just in that state!
If one is able to pay the bills and get some health care (in MA. they can usually do the later), they are lucky right there.
Stats show MA. is very wealthy...BUT, inequality is large. That makes sense....
I guess we will end with W. Mass and coastal MA and RI all have a lot of charms, but cheap living is not among them.
I guess we will end with W. Mass and coastal MA and RI all have a lot of charms, but cheap living is not among them.
You can have both. I've certainly done the drive many times. When I lived in Northampton years ago, I could get to my boat in South Dartmouth in 2 hours and a couple of minutes. There are lots of people in the harbor who do that.
I think that when you adjust for inflation, the costs really haven't gone up all that much. The thing that has changed is what is now considered a basic house. It's bigger and the finish is higher quality. Nobody builds to 1975 starter home level. You'd never be able to sell it in this era of television house hunting shows where anything that's not granite, tile, stainless, and hardwood is shunned.
You can have both. I've certainly done the drive many times. When I lived in Northampton years ago, I could get to my boat in South Dartmouth in 2 hours and a couple of minutes. There are lots of people in the harbor who do that.
I think that when you adjust for inflation, the costs really haven't gone up all that much. The thing that has changed is what is now considered a basic house. It's bigger and the finish is higher quality. Nobody builds to 1975 starter home level. You'd never be able to sell it in this era of television house hunting shows where anything that's not granite, tile, stainless, and hardwood is shunned.
The one thing I've noticed here that you don't see in a lot of places anymore is, there actually are a lot of small ranch and cape houses around. Most are going to need some updating, but for someone who needs a starter home, wants to downsize, or just has more humble needs in a home, there are plenty around.
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