Has anyone seen this academic prediction yet? (Boston, Salem: 2013, rental)

[mdovell]

https://www.masslive.com/news/2020/0...-analysis.html

It's an interesting debate but what this guy is trying to show is there's a number of institutions that will not make it. Not so much due to covid but covid makes this happen faster.

the following are what he argues are in the worst shape in the state
Clark University
Mount Holyoke College
Simmons University
University of Massachusetts, Boston
University of Massachusetts, Dartmouth
Brandeis University

He makes a pretty compelling argument that schools must go online and the risks of opening are pretty high not only to the students but to the communities they serve.

[charolastra00]

Mount Holyoke has an endowment of 800 million for around 2300 students. Brandeis has an endowment of over $1 billion for 5000 students. Obviously the endowment isn't the only story, but both schools still offer something unique in a market that seems increasingly similar and are far above the average endowment $ per student.



I might be a bit biased - Brandeis is my alma mater and it's well known for its STEM programs and is considered very selective. Its choice to rely so heavily on international students has not been wise, but some of the other numbers don't work out for the "perish" rating. It will certainly struggle, like many other schools, but it's hard to imagine it perishing when other Mass schools like Endicott, Regis, Curry, Emmanuel, Lassell, and Merrimack are not on that list but are balancing much lower selectivity with much lower endowments.

[mdovell]

Endowments only go so far though and it depends if you can modify the terms. Students should not be going back. It unethical given the elderly community and social structure of service based economies.

Just like with public schools. Unless it's special Ed or vocational it can be done online. That means zero marginal costs which means no need for individual districts.

[yesmaybe]

That prediction of those colleges closing would be brutal on Boston's economy. Probally will happen if they try to do online, and students say no, they aren't spending 40k a year on crappy distance learning.

[Bridge781]

I’m surprised to see umass Boston on the list. It seems like they’ve become more popular over the years. Guess that’s not enough

[OtterTrees]

I have seen similar articles but they all predict small private colleges across the country as being the ones to close. I think the some smaller state college campuses such as Salem State would close before UMass Boston. Smaller colleges have been struggling and closing for awhile now so a lot of this was expected to happen anyway. I question that list given all the small schools with high tuition around MA such as Curry, Anna Maria, Assumption, and others mentioned above. It would be a shame if Mt. Holyoke closed given its history and its part in the interesting and unique approach to higher education in the 5 college consortium.

[mdovell]

I've been to UMass Boston a number of times and have a class and a cert from there. I'm not saying it's a bad school by any means but the proximity to the water is pretty bad. The parking lot floods on a regular basis and the debate over the garage is crazy. Whoever planned it to be that close to water is probably long gone now. The creation of the campus is the reason why the Inspector Generals office was made. There were insider deals to most contractors and it was a cluster#%#^.

With respect to Mt Holyoke the issue is if classes are online what's the point of having same sex education? I mean if it's to be away from the eyes of guys and the distraction shouldn't that end after high school? The idea of mixed gender education isn't as controversial as it was in say...1965.

Ever see some of the UK shows like Downtown Abby? Ever wonder where landed gentry went? Yeah about that. Basically the huge estates with the stately lawns didn't bring in much for rental income. The upkeep cost too much and frankly they had to sell things off. Normally I can be a critic of ivy leagues but at least places like MIT and Harvard have been talking about online education for 20 or so years. Everything in western mass right now is consolidating to the springfield region. Medical, education, transit etc. The fact that Baystate is expanding in Holyoke and yet the North Adams hospital closed years ago was the start of this.

[charolastra00]

Originally Posted by mdovell

I've been to UMass Boston a number of times and have a class and a cert from there. I'm not saying it's a bad school by any means but the proximity to the water is pretty bad. The parking lot floods on a regular basis and the debate over the garage is crazy. Whoever planned it to be that close to water is probably long gone now. The creation of the campus is the reason why the Inspector Generals office was made. There were insider deals to most contractors and it was a cluster#%#^.

With respect to Mt Holyoke the issue is if classes are online what's the point of having same sex education? I mean if it's to be away from the eyes of guys and the distraction shouldn't that end after high school? The idea of mixed gender education isn't as controversial as it was in say...1965.

Ever see some of the UK shows like Downtown Abby? Ever wonder where landed gentry went? Yeah about that. Basically the huge estates with the stately lawns didn't bring in much for rental income. The upkeep cost too much and frankly they had to sell things off. Normally I can be a critic of ivy leagues but at least places like MIT and Harvard have been talking about online education for 20 or so years. Everything in western mass right now is consolidating to the springfield region. Medical, education, transit etc. The fact that Baystate is expanding in Holyoke and yet the North Adams hospital closed years ago was the start of this.

You don't seem to understand what women's schools are for. Protip: it's not to be away from the eyes of guys.



I work at a university. Most students do not want online education. They put up with it right now because it's the only option, but they don't prefer it. Brandeis is offering mostly online courses and yet still many students are returning to live on campus. My concern is the financial hit these schools will take if they have to shut back down again.



While I think online programs at the undergraduate level will grow and undercut less selective regional institutions, people go to schools like Brandeis, Mt. Holyoke, and Clark for the in-person experience. And there will always be people who prefer that



I got my master's degree entirely online. It was subpar at best, and this was in an established program with 20+ years of distance education experience. I put up with it because it was only a master's and provided by my employer. Online course discussion is no match to the intellectual challenge of small, in person discussion and debate - and that was the root of my undergraduate education at Brandeis. Most traditional undergraduates would not prefer an all online option and many have not yet developed the maturity to succeed in them even if they did.

[charolastra00]

Originally Posted by mdovell

Endowments only go so far though and it depends if you can modify the terms. Students should not be going back. It unethical given the elderly community and social structure of service based economies.

Just like with public schools. Unless it's special Ed or vocational it can be done online. That means zero marginal costs which means no need for individual districts.

Are you saying they should never go back? Ever?


Yeah, no.

[Boston Shudra]

I mean considering the fact that most places haven’t seen a second spike and that the vaccine is well on its way to production, I imagine schools will be set to reopen for Spring 2021. Fall 2020 may be too soon, but one semester online isn’t going to destroy all of academia.