Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Playing dumb helps no one. You can keep pretending it's normal to get vaccinated for something and call yourself "fully vaccinated" for a few months and then take another of the exact same shot and then get infected by the pathogen you're vaccinated against and then have half of the people you know, who are also vaccinated against the pathogen, get infected too. But that's all it is: playing pretend.
It's not even worth having a discussion with someone who refuses to acknowledge the differences between this vaccination campaign and others, to be completely honest. Especially when many of us have been pointing out these differences for more than a year now. If you stop pretending, stop playing dumb, I promise you more people will want to have an open-minded and serious discussion with you on this.
Whatever these differences are, I'm not sure how they matter. We know what the world looked like with coronavirus before vaccines. No one wants to return to that. I would have thought, having lived through 2020, that people would be chomping at the bit to get vaccinated, which is our best ticket out of this mess.
The history is clear--we have literally eradicated diseases, or brought them down to the local cluster level, through the mandatory childhood vaccines. The unfounded, ignorant resistance to Covid vaccines however, will prevent us from ever getting to the same point.
There are things are Covid that I would call not normal (that is was probably made in a lab is pretty high on the list), and there are things about Covid that I would call normal.
The other poster was arguing that there is nothing different between the Covid vaccination campaign and other vaccination campaigns. This is a ridiculous claim, so ridiculous that it can only stifle productive discussion, and I suggested he either stop playing dumb, or expect people to choose not to engage with him.
If you're implying Covid isn't normal, so why should we expect the response to be normal, that is fine (though problematic IMO for other reasons), but then you're agreeing that the response is NOT the same other vaccination campaigns. Which is understood by everybody who isn't being obtuse.
There are things are Covid that I would call not normal (that is was probably made in a lab is pretty high on the list), and there are things about Covid that I would call normal.
The other poster was arguing that there is nothing different between the Covid vaccination campaign and other vaccination campaigns. This is a ridiculous claim, so ridiculous that it can only stifle productive discussion, and I suggested he either stop playing dumb, or expect people to choose not to engage with him.
If you're implying Covid isn't normal, so why should we expect the response to be normal, that is fine (though problematic IMO for other reasons), but then you're agreeing that the response is NOT the same other vaccination campaigns. Which is understood by everybody who isn't being obtuse.
When was the last pandemic prompted vaccine campaign? Polio??? I really don't know. The 50s/60s would it have been? What are your expectations really? 60-70 years later, I'm not sure how much each response should mimic one another. Totally different diseases. Different ages of medicine. Growing multiculturalism. Loss of patriotism, etc...what is your baseline? It's definitely incorrect to say that what is going on now (in many ways) is "normal", but it's also false to pretend that vaccine mandates are in any way a new concept (some are doing that as well).
When was the last pandemic prompted vaccine campaign? Polio??? I really don't know. The 50s/60s would it have been? What are your expectations really? 60-70 years later, I'm not sure how much each response should mimic one another. Totally different diseases. Different ages of medicine. Growing multiculturalism. Loss of patriotism, etc...what is your baseline?
The response should mimic other vaccination campaigns in the sense that it should suppress the pathogen and let us go about our lives normally. If not, then what the hell is the point of a vaccination campaign?
Why don't you tell me if that is happening with these vaccines and, if it's not, make a case as to why not. I trust that you're not going to use "growing multiculturalism" in your case, so I'll agree to forget that you said it...
The response should mimic other vaccination campaigns in the sense that it should suppress the pathogen and let us go about our lives normally. Why don't you tell me if that is happening with these vaccines and, if it's not, make a case as to why not. I trust that you're not going to use "growing multiculturalism" in your case, so I'll agree to forget that you said it...
Growing multiculturalism is simply something that was not so much a factor during previous pandemics; when talking about the rate of voluntary vaccination or lack thereof, and the supposed need for more incentives (or forced compliance).
As for what the response "should do", well we already know that it's suppressed the pathogen as is evidenced by the lower hospitalization and death rates it's resulted in. And we absolutely are living our lives more normal right now than we were this time one year ago, I didn't even think that was questionable. It's obviously not the magic switch we were hoping for. That doesn't equate to being a failure.
Growing multiculturalism is simply something that was not so much a factor during previous pandemics; when talking about the rate of voluntary vaccination or lack thereof, and the supposed need for more incentives (or forced compliance).
If you're wondering why there is more vaccine refusal in this pandemic (though much more compliance than, say, with flu shots), why not just accept the basic truths that: 1) people see lots of other people getting sick even with the shots, and 2) many people have weighed the evidence and don't feel they're at risk from the pathogen in the first place. There, was that so hard? No need for vague excuses like "growing multiculturalism."
If you're wondering why there is more vaccine refusal in this pandemic (though much more compliance than, say, with flu shots), why not just accept the basic truths that: 1) people see lots of other people getting sick even with the shots, and 2) many people have weighed the evidence and don't feel they're at risk from the pathogen in the first place. There, was that so hard? No need for vague excuses like "growing multiculturalism."
Ignorance always existed, however the lack of unity in favor of greater skepticism has never been more pronounced.
Ignorance always existed, however the lack of unity in favor of greater skepticism has never been more pronounced.
Can't imagine why a there's lack of unity. Not everyone appreciated the coordinated, on-a-dime pivoting from "if you leave your house, you're going to kill grandma" to "racism is the real virus" and "white coats for black lives," and back again? Color me shocked.
Last edited by tribecavsbrowns; 01-13-2022 at 09:55 PM..
Playing dumb helps no one. You can keep pretending it's normal to get vaccinated for something and call yourself "fully vaccinated" for a few months and then take another of the exact same shot and then get infected by the pathogen you're vaccinated against and then have half of the people you know, who are also vaccinated against the pathogen, get infected too. But that's all it is: playing pretend.
It's not even worth having a discussion with someone who refuses to acknowledge the differences between this vaccination campaign and others, to be completely honest. Especially when many of us have been pointing out these differences for more than a year now. If you stop pretending, stop playing dumb, I promise you more people will want to have an open-minded and serious discussion with you on this.
Wow . . . I invited you to educate me about the difference between this vaccination campaign and any others and your response is that I'm playing dumb? I'm inviting you to have a discussion and you're name calling?
In my experience, people usually resort to name calling like that because they don't have a sound argument. If you do, I'd love to hear it but so far you haven't provided one in this post or any of the things you've said afterward. You just keep saying it's different. I'd honestly love to hear your side because I'm seeking to understand your viewpoint. I know you've assumed I'm here to say that vaccination is the way and I just want to shout you down (maybe you think I'm Trump who LOVES to do that), but I'm actually quite willing to hear your side of things. So far, I just haven't seen a convincing reason anywhere (not just this thread but anywhere) to avoid getting vaccinated. If Bill Gates really put a microchip in my arm then he's wasting his time because he's not going to learn anything about me that he probably didn't already know.
The only thing I can tell so far is . . . it's not different. Ever get the flu vaccine and then still get the flu? I have. Oh by the way . . my doctor also tells me to get the flu vaccine every year. So, I've had numerous doses of it. There are many other vaccines that require multiple doses and/or boosters as well. Immunity is not always permanent and many viruses mutate into different strains that vaccines are not effective against. So again, I ask you (because I actually don't have my head in the sand) how is this different than any other vaccination campaign except for the fact that it was politicized by the Trump administration?
Quote:
Originally Posted by massnative71
Not idiots at all, I mean the size of the population they were able to manipulate is living proof that these folks are quite talented at what they do. If only they used that great intelligence to actually accomplish some good for society, imagine how different a world we would be in right now...
I think he was saying the people that were manipulated are idiots. The people doing the manipulating are clearly highly skilled at what they're doing as you said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by massnative71
When was the last pandemic prompted vaccine campaign? Polio??? I really don't know. The 50s/60s would it have been? What are your expectations really? 60-70 years later, I'm not sure how much each response should mimic one another. Totally different diseases. Different ages of medicine. Growing multiculturalism. Loss of patriotism, etc...what is your baseline? It's definitely incorrect to say that what is going on now (in many ways) is "normal", but it's also false to pretend that vaccine mandates are in any way a new concept (some are doing that as well).
The last pandemic was Spanish Flu in the 1920's. Pandemics come around every 100 years or so. Vaccination or similar methodologies have been around for 1,000s of years but "modern" vaccination techniques didn't really show up until the mid-1800's. It was smallpox that inspired the creation of early versions of modern vaccination methods in the mid-1800's during the pandemic previous to Spanish Flu but smallpox was actually not eradicated until the late 1970's because it took that long to vaccinate enough people world wide in order to pretty much eliminate the disease. So, vaccination was not wide spread or commonplace when Spanish Flu came about and there was a serious lack of medical professionals at that time because of WWI which didn't help the situation. Mostly, they eradicated Spanish Flu by asking people to wear masks, shutting things down, and staying home.
On the whole, I'm quite saddened by the way this whole thing has gone. The tremendous loss of life and people who will be dealing with COVID after effects for potentially the rest of their lives aside what else makes me sad is that a situation like this even 20 years ago would have unified our country much like 9/11 or WWII did but instead it's just torn it apart even more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribecavsbrowns
The response should mimic other vaccination campaigns in the sense that it should suppress the pathogen and let us go about our lives normally. If not, then what the hell is the point of a vaccination campaign?
Why don't you tell me if that is happening with these vaccines and, if it's not, make a case as to why not. I trust that you're not going to use "growing multiculturalism" in your case, so I'll agree to forget that you said it...
It does. If you read the statistics, the vast majority of people in the hospital or dying from COVID these days are UNVACCINATED. We're all out here wearing masks to protect you. My whole family just had COVID and for the most part it was like having a cold because we're all vaccinated.
COVID would probably be pretty much gone right now if . . .
A) the vaccine roll out had been faster/better run and
B) there had been a higher initial acceptance rate of the vaccine
However, the combination of people being not willing or not able to get the vaccine allowed the virus to continue to spread and gave it time to mutate into more contagious strains. The good news is that as it continues to mutate and become more contagious it also seems to become a lot less deadly especially to those who are vaccinated.
When vaccines completely eradicate a disease that's fantastic but it doesn't always happen for various reasons (most commonly it's that not enough people get vaccinated). As I mentioned earlier, we have a vaccine for the flu but it still comes around every year and even those who are vaccinated can still get sick with the flu. Chicken Pox still exists in the world but it's a lot less common now that there's a vaccine for it.
So again I ask you . . . how is this any different than any other vaccination effort?
Can't imagine why a there's lack of unity. Not everyone appreciated the coordinated, on-a-dime pivoting from "if you leave your house, you're going to kill grandma" to "racism is the real virus" and "white coats for black lives," and back again? Color me shocked.
So on top of saying you don't think it's necessary to get the COVID vaccine you're now saying racism isn't an issue in our country?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Oh by the way . . my doctor also tells me to get the flu vaccine every year. So, I've had numerous doses of it. There are many other vaccines that require multiple doses and/or boosters as well. Immunity is not always permanent and many viruses mutate into different strains that vaccines are not effective against. So again, I ask you (because I actually don't have my head in the sand) how is this different than any other vaccination campaign except for the fact that it was politicized by the Trump administration?
