Is Massachusetts a one-trick pony? (Boston, Worcester: house, college, property taxes)

[masssachoicetts]

Originally Posted by lair8

I'd say north NJ is a perfect example. Even if none of the towns in NJ are equal in weight to NY, the towns within north NJ pretty even and equal amongst themselves.

Driving through that state, you go from one fairly populated town to another. In Mass, youre driving route is more like: busy town --> sticks ---> sticks ---> sticks ---> busy town

I wish MA had two metros. MA is so damn expensive and because Boston underbuilt, it lacks any remotely affordable housing stock.
NJ, where I live now, is definitely more affordable (by a good margin too) and is more built up as it lies within both NYC and Philly metros with built suburbia between. MA just has Boston and you cant really touch any affordable housing until you get west of Worcester sub 2k. If Hartford-Springfield was larger and more dynamic, I think MA would be a lot better.

But now.. nah.

But a lot of states are like this. New York, Illinois, Michigan, Washington, Oregon, Nevada, Georgia, etc... MA is just small with a world class alpha-city that is growing fast on one side of it, making the rest of the state unfathomably expensive and unrealistic.

Boston is still beautiful though.

[lair8]

Is Massachusetts a one-trick pony?

So, according to the vast majority of comments on here, the answer is: Yes?

[masssachoicetts]

Originally Posted by lair8

So, according to the vast majority of comments on here, the answer is: Yes?

Nobody said this. Nobody can really answer this. Its more layered than Boston MSA. New England uses NECTAs and New Englanders see that over MSAs.

Im not sure you fully understand New England all too well. Its more complicated and layered than yes/no.

Have you even been to Massachusetts? The way you described it earlier makes me think you havent.

[FCMA]

Is it surprising there is not a second powerhouse metropolitan city here? The whole land area of the commonwealth is barely larger than the Dallas - Fort Worth metroplex, and New England combined is only about the size of NY state, itself a relatively small state. We already have more people wedged on this postage stamp than most Scandinavian nations’ total population. Is another metropolis needed here? Even the “sticks” here are never too far from a dense population center.

[jayrandom]

Originally Posted by lair8

So, according to the vast majority of comments on here, the answer is: Yes?

To which question? Massachusetts is dominated by the Boston metro. It is not a "one-trick pony".

one-trick pony
noun
: one that is skilled in only one area
also : one that has success only once

The problem is that you've introduced an alternative definition for "one-trick pony" to mean "a state dominated by one metro area". In the context of states (or cities), "one-trick pony" means a state that is dominated by one specific industry. Say Detroit with automobile manufacturing or Pittsburgh (at least through the 1980s) with steel.

I'm not sure if you've done this for nefarious purposes or because you don't really understand the phrase, but you will struggle to get people to agree with the simple statement "is Massachusetts a one-trick pony" because most people will revert to the typical meaning. Of course Massachusetts is dominated by the Boston metro. The CMSA population is 5.8m against a state with just under 7m. There's no need to repurpose a loaded phrase to ask that question. There's really not even a need to ask that question, as the relevant numbers are pretty easy to look up.

You'd get the same thing if you asked "is California a failed state?" and then followed it by defining a "failed state" as one that lost population in 2021.

So what is the point of you asking this question in this particular way? And then demanding a yes or no answer?

[mdovell]

Speaking of somebody that grew up in southeast Massachusetts I used to go to Boston. I moved to Western Mass and I now live in Northeast connecticut. I don't really need Boston. Back in the day when the only way to see the ball game was to actually go and pay for it is a big difference from today where HDTV pretty much puts you in the game. There are restaurants all across New England and massachusetts. After you're done with Academia there isn't that much of a reason to stay in boston. Now I realize there's some people that will say the high-paying jobs are in Boston but that depends. Since there's so much work from home you can just work from home anywhere.

I know people in the finance industry and to be frank Finance hasn't grown in Boston in about 20 years relative to other Industries like biotech. But they're not going back to the office. Now if you do actual physical work like being a contractor or working in medical or the legal profession of course he went back but for many other positions you don't have to be there.

I recently had a conversation with the major Floral Distribution Company. I asked him about where jobs can go and frankly they said that they could move whatever they wanted to out of mass in Connecticut or anywhere as long as it's administrative.

The other thing that considers that there's a lot of people that might work in Boston when they're younger Bank some money and then go somewhere else cheaper. So maybe you spend your first five to 10 years in the Boston area but you did so so you can make money for a down payment somewhere else. Of course the reaction to this is that you can't move back but my reaction to that is where's your growth. Is your smaller City that had the biggest growth in New England not your larger ones.

Many of the urban areas in Massachusetts and New England have changed dramatically over the past couple generations. No one in their right mind went to Providence in the 1960s and '70s but by the '80s and '90s it cleared up. Nobody really wanted to go to Lowell in the mid 1990s but once UMass Lowell opened up it's dramatically changed. Springfield is totally different from what it was 15 years ago. Between MGM coming in and the rail Factory and Union Station opened up and the new Catholic School it all added up.

If the argument is trying to be made that there was just one industry in the state that is incorrect. Between medical companies, Academia, defense contractors technology Finance travel hospitality tourism it all adds up

Now I think an argument could be made that some individual cities and towns are more Diversified than others certainly that is true but that can be true anywhere in the country I'm always a proponent of diversity of the economy

[msRB311]

This thread is funny. On the one hand I feel somewhat defensive of MA (why, I dont know) since I'm from here but at the same time I also feel annoyed that there aren't cities in other parts of the state that are thriving, they just aren't

Cambridge is its own city but I'm sure it's done as well as it has because it's literally right next to Boston and has Harvard/MIT. Same could be said for Somerville. Quincy is an ok city and it seems to attract people. It's still very close to Boston which is part of the attraction.

Would be nice to see Worcester and Springfield pick things up...that would require people staying there after college or people moving there for jobs. If you have to pick between Boston and worcester it seems like Boston wins. Sometimes I dont know why, especially in this remote world that we are still in.

That said, MA has other things to offer aside from Boston. It has the Cape which is a huge attraction along with Nantucket and Martha's Vineyard. The cape and those islands can probably thank the wealth of Boston (along with CT and NY) in many ways. MA also has the Berkshires and Northampton (college town) which gets a good amount of tourism and sounds like people enjoy living there. It also helps to be close to places like NH, VT and ME for skiing and other outdoor activities (MA also has things to offer there as well)

So, no I dont think MA is one stop pony. Does Boston attract people here for jobs? Absolutely. But people are smart and do their research before they move somewhere and see the other things Boston has to offer.

Things that suck about Boston are the cost of living, traffic, winters, public transportation and the politics for many.

[Boston Shudra]

Originally Posted by mdovell

Sticks? Hardly. Worcester and Springfield do well. Equal weight to Boston? No but there is nothing wrong with that

+1. The OP’s very much underselling the state’s cities other than Boston. To keep the NJ comparison, Lowell is absolutely comparable to Trenton and it’s one of 4 (maybe 4.5 if you count Amesbury) noteworthy cities along the Merrimack in MA. And even then, Lowell is behind Worcester and Springfield for size and clout in the state.

After the Merrimack, New Bedford and Fall River offer another whole micro-region.

[FCMA]

Originally Posted by Boston Shudra

+1. The OP’s very much underselling the state’s cities other than Boston. To keep the NJ comparison, Lowell is absolutely comparable to Trenton and it’s one of 4 (maybe 4.5 if you count Amesbury) noteworthy cities along the Merrimack in MA. And even then, Lowell is behind Worcester and Springfield for size and clout in the state.

After the Merrimack, New Bedford and Fall River offer another whole micro-region.

The smaller cities of MA - heck even a lot of the towns out here in the true sticks - were once powerhouses of various industries. Boston dominates the state’s economy now but all those other places are still here and largely still densely populated. Calling everywhere else the sticks is a major simplification.

[Lampert]

Originally Posted by lair8

I'd say north NJ is a perfect example. Even if none of the towns in NJ are equal in weight to NY, the towns within north NJ pretty even and equal amongst themselves.

Driving through that state, you go from one fairly populated town to another.

In Mass, youre driving route is more like: busy town --> sticks ---> sticks ---> sticks ---> busy town

The towns in northern NJ are all part of NYC metro.

What sticks are you talking about? MA is the second or third state by population density. To find the sticks you really need to look hard, unless woody suburb = sticks.