MA residents are leaving the state (Boston, Lowell: layoffs, university, live)

[jayrandom]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

This is what doesn’t hold water https://www.redfin.com/city/14890/CA/Pittsburg


There seem to be places in the Bay Area where a normal person can bu a home much newer than what you’d find here at a lower price point.

Like compare Lowell MA to Pittsburg CA and the Lowell housing market is more competitive with higher cost relative to income and less inventory.

Most people are renters in Sf and Boston and rents in Bostons recently surpassed SF.

I can’t speak to the wealthier parts of the Bay Area- I’m more speaking from my familiarity with cities I live physically been to when I was out there for a months

If Pittsburg is your counterpoint, I think we may be arguing different things. I'm saying the central, desirable areas of a metro can get more unaffordable. I'm not saying this in the "look, it could be worse, so stop complaining" way, but rather, the "look, if we do nothing it can get worse" way if that makes any difference. Enough people were commuting to SF from Manteca, 80 miles east (https://www.planetizen.com/node/8142...e-family-homes) that they wrote articles about it. It's equivalent to commuting to Boston from a bit further out than Palmer, MA.

I lived in Benicia, which is maybe slightly closer than Pittsburg, less accessible (BART nearly makes it to Pittsburg), but driving wise is probably a wash. I wouldn't really say either would be a particularly fun drive five days a week during rush hour. Most people worked closer to San Francisco but not all the way.

If you're going to compare cities I don't think Lowell is a fair comparison city to Pittsburg. Lowell has a large university and a lot going on downtown. It's also 25% closer to Boston (at 30 miles to Pittsburg's 40). Add that even the Wikipedia page calls it "an industrial suburb" along with pictures of a big chemical plant. A slightly better comparison would Leominster, which is about the same distance (43 vs 40) and doesn't have a major university.

Using the same sources as before:

Benicia, CA MHHI = $120k, MHP = $83k (ratio is 6.9)
Pittsburg, CA MHHI = $88k, MHP = $560k (ratio is 6.3)
Lowell, MA. MHHI = $64k, MHP = $438k (ratio is 6.8)
Leominster, MA MHHI = $69k, MHP = $385k (ratio is 5.3)

I wouldn't call Pittsburg significantly better or worse. I also wouldn't say that there aren't housing opportunities for those willing to commute immense distances. California certainly offers newer homes and significantly better diversity, especially as you get away from urban areas.

[jayrandom]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

Pittsburg is a part of the Bay Area right now it’s a 49 minute drive to Downtown San Francisco from Pittsburg. Drove out there (as a passenger), not great but not horrific.

So the reverse commute at 1:30 PM? Right now the SF->Pittsburg commute clocks in at 1h52m and it's not even 5PM in CA. yet.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by htfdcolt

Try having a job in the Peninsula or Valley (where most of the tech jobs are), and living anywhere in the East Bay. It's soul-crushing indeed.

Yeah, I'm up for some long commutes, but when I lived in the Inner Richmond getting to Oakland or Berkeley for shows was not a fun time no matter. Even when it wasn't long, it wasn't easy.

[msRB311]

That's how Boston feels to me now. Even when it isn't long, it isn't easy and takes longer than it should thanks to all the cars on the road

[masssachoicetts]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

Incomes are much higher in the Bay Area though.. like Oakland has a higher median household income than Boston does..

don't matter. People are struggling big time on the west coast. A 300k dual salary wouldn't buy you a home in San Jose, Santa Clara or San Francisco with current interest rates, demand and competition. Even if you get a modest 1.3mil dollar home, you have to pay 8-9k a month in mortgage + 1k in Property taxes... A modest home in SF would take your 200k salary after taxes and cut into more than 1/2 just on mortgage expenses. But even then, you have fierce competition for that modest home.

SF/SJ vastly underbuilt and the consequences are dire. SF lost a lot of the culture it had and really Boston is following that same trajectory.

Yeah sure, you might be able to get a condo for 600-1mil around the Bay Area. Sure. But, what about a home to have a family in a good town?

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/8...19529792_zpid/ Thats what you get...

[masssachoicetts]

Originally Posted by htfdcolt

Like that house in your first link in Santa Clara...probably cost you north of $3M. Insane. MA is not quite there yet. Not a lot of "new" construction going on there. There are teardowns, and extensive renovations, for sure.

Yeah the Bay Area is really in the stratosphere.... luckily Boston doesnt have the topographic and geographic constraints that SF/SJ do.... but, its up there.

We sure do got the NIMBYs. Maybe not as bad as SF (Which takes 700+ days to get an application for a permit for a single family home LMAO).

[lrfox]

Originally Posted by timberline742

Yeah, I'm up for some long commutes, but when I lived in the Inner Richmond getting to Oakland or Berkeley for shows was not a fun time no matter. Even when it wasn't long, it wasn't easy.

Oh man, you're giving me flashbacks of many jam packed trips on the 38.

San Francisco isn't unlike Boston in that it's often quite a bit easier (and faster) to walk a mile or more than it is to rely on transit or drive. I'd argue that both transit and driving are generally worse in the Bay Area. The major exception is that it's much easier, in my opinion to drive within the San Francisco city limits than it is within the Boston city limits. The grid layout, wider streets, ample parking, and generally less aggressive drivers are a noticeable improvement over driving in Boston. But if you're trying to drive into town from outside of the city (particularly over any of the bridges), traffic can be an absolute nightmare. There really isn't a local comparison.

[timberline742]

I found transit worse in SF, but I found the bus slightly better. I was also there when they had those digital signs at bus stops telling you how long til the next bus, which was something I'd not lived with before. But yeah, between walking and the bus, I preferred that to driving to the point that I got rid of my car. It was more a PITA than not.

[BostonBornMassMade]

Originally Posted by jayrandom

So the reverse commute at 1:30 PM? Right now the SF->Pittsburg commute clocks in at 1h52m and it's not even 5PM in CA. yet.

yikes...all i can say. Thats horrible.

[msRB311]

I've been noticing more layoffs happening in tech....like today. Seems crappy to lay people off right before the holidays.