Planned MetroMover link to Miami Beach- "In motion"

[Coconut1]

Let's not forget PRT out to the beach!

[Tadster91]

Originally Posted by Wild Style

*sigh*

Weather takes out light rail in Baltimore link

Problems with light rail in very hot climates link


There are other articles you can google, I don't have time to post them all. Then there are the safety concerns as many people have been hit by these things. Build mass transit, do it in a way that makes sense. For south florida, this doesnt.

That same storm in the first link also caused service disruptions to the Washington Metro due to downed trees on the above ground lines. That storm also knocked out power for days for thousands of people in Maryland and was much like a spontaneous mini hurricane. It is about as frequent as a major hurricane making a direct hit on SoFla, which isn't that often.

I also had to evacuate the Metro on two separate occasions during morning rush hour because the track had overheated and expanded due to the 100-degree weather we were having. And as the second link stated, you can design the rails and catenary for different temperature ranges. The problems that happened occurred to weather anomalies like higher than usual temperatures than for what were designed for. Summer temps up around the DC-Baltimore and Houston areas average about the same as Miami's year round temperatures and service isn't disrupted as often by weather, and Baltimore didn't have to rebuild the whole system because of a couple of down wires. It's the same thing with the above ground telephone and powerlines that we already have. Does FPL replace the whole power grid when a powerline goes down. Do powerlines come down during every storm? No. Lightrail isn't any different.

And if you read the articles about accidents involving people crossing light rail tracks, they are usually always driver/pedestrian error, like trying to make it infront of the train before the gates close, or not being aware at a rail crossing. I guess we shouldn't have more commuter rail either because people get hit by those trains too.

If you can build a tunnel in an area that would easily be flooded in a major storm out to what was originally a sand bar, then I'm sure some engineer somewhere has designed a more wind resistant powerline.

[tankhead]

Originally Posted by xS☺Be

Well if you don't have another lane for a bus, where are you gonna put the rail?

I've waited many a miserable time at rail stops where shelter sucked too. Every subway stop is gonna be Grand Central Station dude.

Hey, don't get me wrong. I'm a fan of trains. But for that short hop to the beach, buses can do the same thing for a fraction of the cost.

Ya know what would be a better idea though? Water taxis.

1. I do think there can be another lane built. I was just pointing to a contradiction in your argument.

2. When it rains, it sucks at both rail stops and bus stops, but it's MUCH worse standing in a bus stop than a rail stop when it rains.

3. The only way buses would be a viable option would be if there was frequent bus service like there is in Mexico in addition to an express lane. However, our labor costs in this country are significantly higher than there are in Mexico so I just don't see that as a feasable option. Frequent bus service = higher operating costs than rail.

4. Most importantly, buses are slower than rail.

5. I agree with water taxis idea as a supplemental form of transportation.

[Wild Style]

Originally Posted by Tadster91

That same storm in the first link also caused service disruptions to the Washington Metro due to downed trees on the above ground lines. That storm also knocked out power for days for thousands of people in Maryland and was much like a spontaneous mini hurricane. It is about as frequent as a major hurricane making a direct hit on SoFla, which isn't that often.

I also had to evacuate the Metro on two separate occasions during morning rush hour because the track had overheated and expanded due to the 100-degree weather we were having. And as the second link stated, you can design the rails and catenary for different temperature ranges. The problems that happened occurred to weather anomalies like higher than usual temperatures than for what were designed for. Summer temps up around the DC-Baltimore and Houston areas average about the same as Miami's year round temperatures and service isn't disrupted as often by weather, and Baltimore didn't have to rebuild the whole system because of a couple of down wires. It's the same thing with the above ground telephone and powerlines that we already have. Does FPL replace the whole power grid when a powerline goes down. Do powerlines come down during every storm? No. Lightrail isn't any different.

And if you read the articles about accidents involving people crossing light rail tracks, they are usually always driver/pedestrian error, like trying to make it infront of the train before the gates close, or not being aware at a rail crossing. I guess we shouldn't have more commuter rail either because people get hit by those trains too.

If you can build a tunnel in an area that would easily be flooded in a major storm out to what was originally a sand bar, then I'm sure some engineer somewhere has designed a more wind resistant powerline.

OR you can just expand what we already have Doesn't make sense to build a light rail system, especially since they are already going to expand metromover to the port.

[hurricaneMan1992]

Originally Posted by Wild Style

OR you can just expand what we already have Doesn't make sense to build a light rail system, especially since they are already going to expand metromover to the port.

Are we expanding it to the Port? I haven't heard this.

[hurricaneMan1992]

Originally Posted by Wild Style

One thing no one has spoken about, which I think should be addressed is, the fact metromove is FREE! That needs to stop in my opinion. They should at least charge 50 centers per ride or give a monthly pass etc for X amount of dollars. That way the metromover wont be such a financial drain and hopefully can even fund part of its own expansion..

This table from the draft 2012 Transit Development Plan (on MDT's website) can give you an idea of how much of a drain it is:

Metrorail: Operating expense: $81M, revenue: $17M
Metrobus: Operating expense: $306M, revenue: $90M
Metromover: Operating expense: $23M, revenue: $0

In the grand scheme of things, charging for Metromover and getting ~20-30% cost recovery ($4-7M) wouldn't help very much. Plus you'd have to install and maintain the easy card machines and traditional turnstiles, since you can't expect everybody to get an easy card to pay a 50-cent fare and go a few blocks.

Now if you extend Mover to the beach they, yes, you'd better charge for that.

[hurricaneMan1992]

Originally Posted by Wild Style

The high wind and heavy rain has also affected Light Rail service. Downed trees took out several power lines on the north end of the Light Rail system.

Hmm...trees knocking down power lines? Sounds a lot like service disruption due to power outages to me. The article didn't say a thing about light rail SPECIFIC overhead wires.

For example, when a 1-mile stretch of steel rail gets 100 degrees hotter, it expands 3.85 feet. This can cause the tracks to bend or buckle (a phenomenon known as sun kink) sometimes so much that trains can derail.

Like I said, it's due to thermal expansion of the actual rail tracks...which Metrorail is also subject to.

But I guess we shouldn't be building any more roads, since they also expand and contract with temperature and experience weathering from our heavy rain storms, and yes, occasionally storm surges, then we just have to repave them anyway.

Finally...Light rail is not a streetcar!!!

[checkmatechamp13]

Originally Posted by hurricaneMan1992

In the grand scheme of things, charging for Metromover and getting ~20-30% cost recovery ($4-7M) wouldn't help very much. Plus you'd have to install and maintain the easy card machines and traditional turnstiles, since you can't expect everybody to get an easy card to pay a 50-cent fare and go a few blocks.

Now if you extend Mover to the beach they, yes, you'd better charge for that.

You have to consider that the costs of operating MetroMover aren't too high because you don't have too much labor involved (all the trains are automated). A 50 cent fare might be enough to get a 100% farebox recovery ratio.

[rnc2mbfl]

Originally Posted by hurricaneMan1992

This table from the draft 2012 Transit Development Plan (on MDT's website) can give you an idea of how much of a drain it is:

Metrorail: Operating expense: $81M, revenue: $17M
Metrobus: Operating expense: $306M, revenue: $90M
Metromover: Operating expense: $23M, revenue: $0

In the grand scheme of things, charging for Metromover and getting ~20-30% cost recovery ($4-7M) wouldn't help very much. Plus you'd have to install and maintain the easy card machines and traditional turnstiles, since you can't expect everybody to get an easy card to pay a 50-cent fare and go a few blocks.

Now if you extend Mover to the beach they, yes, you'd better charge for that.

How much does it cost to maintain the "free" network of streets and highways in MiamiDade? Anyone have that data?

[rnc2mbfl]

I am really curious about how they plan to link to Miami Beach and the convention center by rail. There's just no easy answer to that puzzle. Coming across the MacArthur means having to wind one's way up to the convention center once across the bay. Coming across the Venetian is most direct to the convention center but it is probably a non-starter from the get go because it's a residential causeway. Coming across the Tuttle probably makes more sense than the MacArthur but the path still needs to find its way to the convention center. How would that happen?....down Alton??? That doesn't make much sense either.
I think the better idea is to come across the bay and then link to local buses at a special station. Already the A route bus comes across the Venetian and links the Convention Center with the Omni Station. That seems to work fine.