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My whole thing is who determines what southern culturally? when the culture of the south is so diverse. There are a lot of other cities other than Miami that have lost the sterotypical view of southern. I believe that no matter how a city evolves it will always be a southern city. Miami, NO, atl, dallas, Houston, etc.
My whole thing is who determines what southern culturally? when the culture of the south is so diverse. There are a lot of other cities other than Miami that have lost the sterotypical view of southern. I believe that no matter how a city evolves it will always be a southern city. Miami, NO, atl, dallas, Houston, etc.
the cultural traits that are common throughout the vast majority of the region do
never said they applied to the entire south, said they applied to the vast majority of it, and said they applied to the "southern cuture region". why is it that i can get sweet tea and pimento cheese in kentucky and south georgia but not in ohio? its the southern culture region. i listed three dialects from top of the south to bottom west to east (KY, AR, GA), and they all are very similar, ect...
i get it, your from new orleans and consider yourself to be a southerner, thus get offended when people define southern culture in ways that seem to exclude new orleans (which i dont believe they necessarily do), but fact is the vast majority of the south shares these cultural characteristics (or most) listed and is thus a culture region.
wow. you seriously cant see the difference between my definition of the culture region and hollywood stereotypes? youre the one jumping to that conclusion.
I was just making the point that they didn't. My point was not directed specifically at you, but meant in general. I know that there is general commonality between southern states (including South Florida, South Louisiana, and north and western parts of Texas), but it is subtle and not this broad set of accents, food, etc. that people "want" it to be and I say "want" because if you notice everyone's definition of southern is different and biased to what they imagine as southern.
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as far as the black people thing, the south has rural black people, which isnt found in the north. but there are plenty of parts of it that dont. and the point is that you still eat greens, sure there is a variation but it is still greens. last time i checked cajuns stiill eat fried catfish&hushpuppies, they just season it a little different. and it seems a lot of the south has taken to blackening.
That's the thing, blacks are more prominent in the rural south vs other rural regions, but once you add in the cities it's the same as anywhere else. The south has historically had a large black population for obvious reasons, but to say that a place is southern because it has a lot of black people is rediculous.
Yeah, I still eat greens; leafy vegetables in broth is eaten in some form or another wherever you go be it creamed, steamed, etc. The point is you can't label the entire south with one broad brush. I didn't even know that Pimento Cheese was "southern" until you said it. It doesn't seem to be be popular in Mississippi or Texas as much. I know a family from Kentucky who swear up and down that the south doesn't start until Tennessee. A person from Georgia will argue that cornbread should never be sweetened and that sugar in cornbread is a northern thing, while a person in Mississippi would argue that you can't have cornbread without sugar. I can go to the midwest and get white cornbread. I could head out west and find arepas and corn cakes. I could come to N.O. and cornbread becomes an every so often type of thing. The only similarity between catfish fried in S.E. Louisiana and Texas or Louisiana is the fact that it's fish fried in grease. I don't remember the last time I've seen a hushpuppy that didn't come from Long John Silvers. On that note, you can also find fried fish, fries, or corn fritters anywhere.
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obviously the southern culture region is not going to be exactly the same everywhere you go, but the vast majority of it is very similar culturally, and most of the areaas that differ still share a lot of the characteristics. (red beans is prepared a lot like soup beans)
These areas are similar on a base level just like any other region. After that things change suddenly and I've never had soup beans started with a roux.
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it doesnt become northeastern, because the northeast can never exist in the south, especially when its surrounded by southerners. but it certainly becomes something different.
Really....... It becomes something different.. Seriously?
I was just making the point that they didn't. My point was not directed specifically at you, but meant in general. I know that there is general commonality between southern states (including South Florida, South Louisiana, and north and western parts of Texas), but it is subtle and not this broad set of accents, food, etc. that people "want" it to be and I say "want" because if you notice everyone's definition of southern is different and biased to what they imagine as southern.
except i think its much more than a "general commonality". you seem to be under the impression that the only thing that bonds these states is the facts that they are near each other. i thnk its much more, and its a cultural bond.
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Originally Posted by WestbankNOLA
That's the thing, blacks are more prominent in the rural south vs other rural regions, but once you add in the cities it's the same as anywhere else. The south has historically had a large black population for obvious reasons, but to say that a place is southern because it has a lot of black people is rediculous.
of course it is. detroit is 80 percent black, and by those standards it would be incredibly southern. however, there are culturallky differences between black southerns and black northerners, particularly in the way of dialect.
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Originally Posted by WestbankNOLA
Yeah, I still eat greens; leafy vegetables in broth is eaten in some form or another wherever you go be it creamed, steamed, etc. The point is you can't label the entire south with one broad brush. I didn't even know that Pimento Cheese was "southern" until you said it. It doesn't seem to be be popular in Mississippi or Texas as much. I know a family from Kentucky who swear up and down that the south doesn't start until Tennessee. A person from Georgia will argue that cornbread should never be sweetened and that sugar in cornbread is a northern thing, while a person in Mississippi would argue that you can't have cornbread without sugar. I can go to the midwest and get white cornbread. I could head out west and find arepas and corn cakes. I could come to N.O. and cornbread becomes an every so often type of thing. The only similarity between catfish fried in S.E. Louisiana and Texas or Louisiana is the fact that it's fish fried in grease. I don't remember the last time I've seen a hushpuppy that didn't come from Long John Silvers. On that note, you can also find fried fish, fries, or corn fritters anywhere.
well that family in kentucky is dead wrong. and you are nitpicking way too much. there is a such thing as southern culture, and southern food. especially in the rural areas. i know that you will probably bring up south florida, or south louisiana or texas to "prove" to me that the south is not monolithic or whatever, but im trying to explain that the vast majority of the south shares cultural traits in the way of dialect, cusine, religion, etc. i know you you can get cornbread in the midwest, you can get fried chicken there too. some southern foods are not exclusive to the south (mac and cheese being one). and pimento cheese certainly is popular in mississippi, and is exclusive pretty much to the southern culture region. and good example would be chess pie, spoon bread, ect.
but yea, south louisiana is very different. so is florida. but most of kentucky, most of tennessee, georgia, north carolina, south carolina, even upper louisiana share the traits im talking about. how the south got the the point where such a large regions shares so many cultural and dialectual traits i dont know, but they do. and listen to those three dialect samples. are they exactly the same? no, but they certianly are pretty damn similar.
point is, just because smal parts of the south are very diffferent, does change the fact that the vast majority of the region shares cultural characteristics. otherwise, what the hell's the point of even grouping it together?
except i think its much more than a "general commonality". you seem to be under the impression that the only thing that bonds these states is the facts that they are near each other. i thnk its much more, and its a cultural bond.
You're taking my point way out of context. Most of states in this region share a basic dialect, however there really is no common accent. You can also split the region in half between the drawl and twang. The region shares staple foods, but the way that they are prepared varies from one extreme to another. Many of these foods can also be found in different parts of the country and the world (i.e. cornbread, beans and meat in broth, and leafy vegatables in broth). The music varies from one state to the next. My point is that the similarities between them are limited to the most basic of traits. Basic to the point where to base the entire region off of one area is rediculous.
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of course it is. detroit is 80 percent black, and by those standards it would be incredibly southern. however, there are culturallky differences between black southerns and black northerners, particularly in the way of dialect.
That's my point.
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well that family in kentucky is dead wrong. and you are nitpicking way too much. there is a such thing as southern culture, and southern food. especially in the rural areas. i know that you will probably bring up south florida, or south louisiana or texas to "prove" to me that the south is not monolithic or whatever, but im trying to explain that the vast majority of the south shares cultural traits in the way of dialect, cusine, religion, etc. i know you you can get cornbread in the midwest, you can get fried chicken there too. some southern foods are not exclusive to the south (mac and cheese being one). and pimento cheese certainly is popular in mississippi, and is exclusive pretty much to the southern culture region. and good example would be chess pie, spoon bread, ect.
You keep trying to explain that southern culture exists... I never said that southern culture does not exist, etc. I'm saying that it isn't one giant culture that is the end all be all of the region. My point with the family that moved from Kentucky was to show just how the definition of the south differs from one person to the next. In their opinion to include Kentucky as southern you would have to include the bottom half of Ohio as well.
I don't have to bring Florida, Louisiana, or Texas into this although they serve as a good example. You then have to take into account that Mississippi, western Tennessee, and northern Louisiana have more in common with Texas culturally than Alabama and Georgia.
On the food tip. I lived in Mississippi for over a year after Katrina and Texas is like a second home. Other than being the occasional dip at party or get together, no one I ever encountered was going crazy for pimento cheese. Now if it is only available in the south, I understand. This is also where I had my first experience with spoonbread. A coworker who had relocated from either Nashville of Knoxville brought it to the office for the Christmas party. No one even knew what it was and only two people actually went for seconds. Most thought that it tasted like "raw dressing" with no seasoning.
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but yea, south louisiana is very different. so is florida. but most of kentucky, most of tennessee, georgia, north carolina, south carolina, even upper louisiana share the traits im talking about. how the south got the the point where such a large regions shares so many cultural and dialectual traits i dont know, but they do. and listen to those three dialect samples. are they exactly the same? no, but they certianly are pretty damn similar.
They share some traits, but the traits are basic traits. It's the same concept with any other region.
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point is, just because smal parts of the south are very diffferent, does change the fact that the vast majority of the region shares cultural characteristics. otherwise, what the hell's the point of even grouping it together?
The point in grouping them together is the fact that they are the most similar out of all the surrounding states. They share the basic traits that help build the cultures of the surrounding states.
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I don't even know why we are having this discussion. My point was that most people want the south to fit in one box and be exactly alike across the board. I don't understand why it is so easy to expect the Northeast, Midwest, and West Coast to be diverse and different from city the city; but people people in the south have to all be the same.
That goes to how it is applied to Miami. Even though it's not the dominant culture represented in Miami, the "steretypical southerness" that is present in Miami is stronger than that found in some other cities that are considered undoubtedly southern. Just because Miami is diverse people want to get up and say oh that's not the south as if the south isn't diverse or can't have any outside influence. They argue that Miami was settled by a northerner, but many southerners (white and black) migrated to South Florida after Miami's founding (many to work the fields in everglades and around Lake Okeechobee and layed down some of the initial culture until the "Conchs", "Saws", and Latin Americans came. Basically the culture evolved, just as it has many cities across the country; but only in the south can a place lose its regional identity because of demographics.
It's simply retarded to me.
You have those outside of the south, who label the south as the same and could care less.
You have many urban southerners who realize just how diverse the area is.
You have many rural southerners who want the south to be some imaginary world where people are nice and blah, blah, blah... and anything else isn't the south.
I say close this thread it's getting ridiculous... Let Miami be what it is the most multicultural city in the south... Let it be Latin America.. It's called that more than it's called southern
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Originally Posted by WestbankNOLA
If you ask me the south has an identy crisis.
I don't think it does at all. I think there is a certain segment of the country that refuses to see the South as it is today and in some cases in any kind of positive light.
I don't think it does at all. I think there is a certain segment of the country that refuses to see the South as it is today and in some cases in any kind of positive light.
Trust me, many of them see the modern day south for exactly what it is. If they didn't, they'd probably stop leaving their respective regions to head south.
WestbankNOLA, i'd say im somewhere between "urban southerners who realize just how diverse the area is" and "rural southerners who want the south to be some imaginary world where people are nice and blah, blah, blah... and anything else isn't the south."
what i'd tell you is that select areas of the south (cities) are diverse (now, this is a recent phenomenon as immigration to the south was practically non-existent for quite some time) and you have select culture areas that are quite interesting and unique (usually the coast, south louisiana, coastal SC, florida keys). and then there are huge swaths of rural areas, that while not EXACTLY the same, share a little bit more than "the most basic of traits". more specifically i believe there are subregions, and all the subregions share traits, but are not identical, and then there are the very unique areas (still which share some traits)
for example appalachian south (east ky, east TN, north GA, west VA, Western NC), upper south, (KY, TN, Northern alabama), delta south (west MS, southeast AR, southwest TN)
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