[Ypsi the Clown]

i like pringles! lol

[NYisontop]

I'm a little confused by this list.. there is crime in New Haven but it's very contained to the low development parts of the city, I've never had an issue and worked in many of the neighborhoods. Not just New Haven but Buffalo, Philly, Lowell, Hartford, Jersey City, a lot of places. And Atlantic City and Camden didn't make the list? Interesting indeed..

I spent this past Sunday in Detroit during the snowfall, it was a very appealing city, I rarely have spent time downtime and spent my day photographing. Talked to a handful of nice locals. I am just so stunned at how the community can flee to the suburbs and take so long to begin its return to the urban core. I think this trend is slowly stabilizing and I can see it reversing. Detroit was once pushing close to 2 million (not sure if it was 1.7, 1.8 million in 1950?).. now it's half that. There certainly must be some return to the city from the suburbs or there will be little hope for them either. Very nice communities to the North and West for the large part, but a metro district is not the sum of it's burbs. It's the downtown core and the surrounding communities. Detroit's ship will right itself. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

In a couple of weeks I'll return for hopefully clearer weather.. I love the snow but the winds downtown were 40 mph, a bit much to even look around. I'd like to get up to Flint this time around, am interested to see it and capture more than the tired story of boarded mill town.

[313Weather]

Now the million dollar question, since all the bullcrap has been spewed.

New York and Illinois bent over backwards to help the (by far) largest municipalities in their states when they were going through pure hell in the 1970s and 1980s.

What exactly has the "great" state of Michigan done other than encourage more flight from its (by far) largest municipality AND take away the constitutional rights of the citizens in its (by far) largest municipality?

[Bondurant]

Originally Posted by 313Weather

Now the million dollar question, since all the bullcrap has been spewed.

New York and Illinois bent over backwards to help the (by far) largest municipalities in their states when they were going through pure hell in the 1970s and 1980s.

What exactly has the "great" state of Michigan done other than encourage more flight from its (by far) largest municipality AND take away the constitutional rights of the citizens in its (by far) largest municipality?

What do you want Michigan to do to save Detroit and with what money? Detroit had millions upon millions of federal funds pumped into the city in the 60s as part of LBJ's effort to be the next FDR. Read Violence in the Model city (a great book about Detroit leading up to the '67 riots) for more information on that failure.

It's easy to call for taxation and spending when it's not your money at play and when you can call for it without offering any solutions of your own.

[malamute]

Originally Posted by timeofseasons

Flint ranks as nation's most violent, FBI statistics show | MLive.com




Never knew that New Haven, Conn was such a dangerous city.

How did Flint and Detroit become so violent?

It was well known before Clinton signed NAFTA that it would destroy our manufacturing cities. Without jobs people leave, houses and many buildings become abandoned and crime takes over.

[malamute]

Originally Posted by chiroptera

There is a program in Flint right now - I can't recall what it's called - where through some sort of grant money and government funding, "at risk" teens are being taught trades, computing, things like that. I think it's great and hope it gets some of these kids employed and useful.

Other than small programs like that, I am not sure what else the city can do...canudigit is right. The problems run very deep and are beyond the scope of what the city can tackle. Especially since Flint is teetering on bankruptcy. There is a huge class of folks who have little understanding or will or ability to become responsible and employed, or avoid crime, gangs and drugs. I volunteer with an agency that works with "at-risk" families and kids and while it does a marvelous job of helping some people, the majority are basically beyond help and the best we can do is find various types of government aid for them so they don't end up homeless.

If uneducated, unemployed, drug-using people could be persuaded to stop breeding for a decade or so, that would help. It's the little kids that break my heart. Bright, willing, curious, smart little kids and I look at them and figure the majority will lose the smarts and innocence and curiosity and end up like their parents, in jail, or dead by 20. All because their parents don't have the skills and tools to raise them right. It starts with the parents...and their parents, and so on.

That's a lot of it. People on welfare having kids are not trying to get off welfare, having more kids keeps them on welfare, makes it all that much harder to get to working for a living.

Rewarding the most irresponsible to go on having baby after baby by paying them to lay around and do nothing is definitely not working.

And without the manufacturing industry, there will never be jobs for the babies being pumped out of welfare mothers.

It would be simple enough to require those who want all the welfare handouts to agree to sterilization or at least stop giving them many more rewards for each baby they have. Let them learn to budget and cut back on their own spending.

[Indentured Servant]

Originally Posted by malamute

That's a lot of it. People on welfare having kids are not trying to get off welfare, having more kids keeps them on welfare, makes it all that much harder to get to working for a living.

Rewarding the most irresponsible to go on having baby after baby by paying them to lay around and do nothing is definitely not working.

And without the manufacturing industry, there will never be jobs for the babies being pumped out of welfare mothers.

It would be simple enough to require those who want all the welfare handouts to agree to sterilization or at least stop giving them many more rewards for each baby they have. Let them learn to budget and cut back on their own spending.

Let’s cut the BS. When there is an oversupply of labor in a market and country all the job training in the world is not going to create market demand for excess labor. Furthermore, a large part of the problem in these communities could have been eradicated long ago, but America really did not want to do so. There was GREAT intransigence on the part of America to even STOP the legal oppression of black people. That was despite the fact the treatment of blacks in this country became an international liability as the US waged its cold war against communism predicated upon that systems basic violation of human rights in countries that were communist. All those countries had to do was point back at the US and its terrible treatment of black people, but I digress. The point is that nation that took hundreds of years to end LEGAL racial oppression of black people, being brought fighting and kicking to that point, is hardly a nation that is going to sincerely try to clean up the aftermath of the oppression so that these people can reach equality and a better life.

I call BS because solutions were out there but America rested on the morals of ending legal oppression, which did NOT change hearts and minds of many people. Racism is still alive and well and that racism seeks to ensure that nothing is done to really help such communities and people get back on their feet and such racism comes from both sides of the political spectrum. Politicians do not really care about the people as much as they care about the peoples vote. Things cannot really be done to change the situation because to try to target and help the acute problem groups would result in the politician losing the white vote. On the other side you have liberals who simply pander to existing policies that have become inefficient at solving problems in order to secure the black vote. This country cannot continue with one size fits all approaches to social policy, whether it’s liberal or conservative.

The problems for black people in America have never really been related to political philosophies of liberalism or conservatism, but rather, racism. Hence, the solution is not going to come from liberalism or conservatism.

[313Weather]

Originally Posted by Bondurant

What do you want Michigan to do to save Detroit and with what money? Detroit had millions upon millions of federal funds pumped into the city in the 60s as part of LBJ's effort to be the next FDR. Read Violence in the Model city (a great book about Detroit leading up to the '67 riots) for more information on that failure.

It's easy to call for taxation and spending when it's not your money at play and when you can call for it without offering any solutions of your own.

How about these 10 ideas (which Illinois and New York more or less utilized)...

Follow The Money (http://mlui.org/growthmanagement/fullarticle.asp?fileid=16793 - broken link)

Probably too much like right in Michigan, but hey, those are the solutions (page 8 of the link)...