[ram2]

Originally Posted by magellan

That's anecdotal evidence. Do you have anything that compares the overall condition of roads in those states compared to Michigan? Considering that Wisconsin, Illinois and Ohio are having huge budget issues, way bigger than Michigan's, I find it hard to believe that their roads are being maintained well.

Good road maintenance in those other states did not start in just the past few years. Michigan had poor roads in the 1990s when the economy was booming. Where was the gas tax money going back then during those boom times?

[313Weather]

Originally Posted by ram2

Good road maintenance in those other states did not start in just the past few years. Michigan had poor roads in the 1990s when the economy was booming. Where was the gas tax money going back then during those boom times?

Fact of the matter too is Michigan has always been too cheap to build infrastructure that lasts.

Just look at the freeway infrastructure that was built around Detroit back in the 1940s - 1970s for example (when BTW Michigan AND Detroit was also doing well). It's been falling apart from the seams the day it was constructued. That's why they have to be completely redone every other year.

It's a trade off, either you pay for something that lasts or you build it cheap now and pay more for more frequent repairs or the fact that the infrastructure is lacking. The state of Michigan chose the latter, and now we have our debacle now.

[djmilf]

Originally Posted by ram2

Why makes you think higher taxes will yield better roads? The gas taxes are higher now than they were 40+ years ago and the roads still don't get fixed. And remember the average vehicle is lighter today compared to 1970, so there is less wear in that regard.

The claimed justification by the Governor is that the state is in danger of losing matching federal funds. If the tax is collect but doesn't go towards transportation then the federal funds are lost. I suppose to believe that the funds would go elsewhere would imply that Rick Snyder is willing to waste $40 million dollars in order to pork out his pet projects; but the man doesn't strike me as the type to do such a thing.

As for gas taxes being higher now than 40 years ago, well, yes they are. The gasoline tax is and always has been a fixed amount per gallon. Inflation eats away at the purchasing power of the tax collected. So while the tax collected remains the same, the road repair costs rise.

But I said all this in my first post. Maybe you should go back and try reading it again.

[djmilf]

Originally Posted by Trail twister

As a former trucker I can tell you the run of the mill 18 wheelers you see on Michigan roads are not permited to have a Total weight over 80,000 pounds.

The surrounding states all limit their loads to about 80,000 pounds total per truck. Illinois does allow overweight loads, but requires permits and fees to pay for them.

According to http://www.michigan.gov/documents/Loads_dim_87014_7.pdf, Michigan allows up to 160,000 pounds per truck as long as the vehicle has 13 properly spaced axles and the weight doesn't exceed 700 pounds per inch of tire rim width. Now I'll grant that's not your typical 18 wheeler and that only about 15% of trucks on Michigan roads exceed 80,000 pounds, but its still more than neighboring states.

[us66]

The increase in car registration costs really irks me. The rates where they'd like the registration tax to be are not far off from places such as Texas and Nevada, who also do not collect an income tax.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by us66

The increase in car registration costs really irks me. The rates where they'd like the registration tax to be are not far off from places such as Texas and Nevada, who also do not collect an income tax.

Well you certainly don't want to build a financial model after Nevada's. That State is going down in flames. I even heard that UNLV is at risk of closing altogether. Imagine if that were the case in Michigan, its largest University on the verge of collapse. Texas is being supported by rapid growth and growth alone. Again, not a sustainable model for Michigan.

Comparing Michigan's budget to other state's is foolhearty. They're all set up differently, have different levels of infrastructure, different weather conditions, different political powers and business structures at work.

Personally I put about 10 gallons of gas a week in my car. If the gas tax went up $.09 or $.10/gallon, that'd be a whopping 90 cents or a dollar a week out of my hide. I can't for a million years understand why people wouldn't support that, to bring Michigan roads up to speed in 5 - 10 years (it will take at least that long). Conversely though, I hate when we get our registration fees every year. And to think that it might double irks me even more.

[kcam213]

Originally Posted by ram2

Yes. Have someone blindfold you and drive you acoss the Ohio or Indiana border. You can feel the difference in road quality immediately.

It seems to me, Ohio uses concrete more often then asphalt. I don't have any links, but I used to live in Ohio and now live in SE Michigan.

It just seems like there are more asphalt roads in Michigan. It also seems like asphalt is more vulnerable to the freeze-thaw problem. Doesn't concrete have those planned breaks in the surface to accommodate freeze-thaw?

[kcam213]

Originally Posted by magellan

Well you certainly don't want to build a financial model after Nevada's. That State is going down in flames. I even heard that UNLV is at risk of closing altogether. Imagine if that were the case in Michigan, its largest University on the verge of collapse. Texas is being supported by rapid growth and growth alone. Again, not a sustainable model for Michigan.

Comparing Michigan's budget to other state's is foolhearty. They're all set up differently, have different levels of infrastructure, different weather conditions, different political powers and business structures at work.

Personally I put about 10 gallons of gas a week in my car. If the gas tax went up $.09 or $.10/gallon, that'd be a whopping 90 cents or a dollar a week out of my hide. I can't for a million years understand why people wouldn't support that, to bring Michigan roads up to speed in 5 - 10 years (it will take at least that long). Conversely though, I hate when we get our registration fees every year. And to think that it might double irks me even more.

^yeah, what he said.

[ram2]

Originally Posted by djmilf

The claimed justification by the Governor is that the state is in danger of losing matching federal funds. If the tax is collect but doesn't go towards transportation then the federal funds are lost. I suppose to believe that the funds would go elsewhere would imply that Rick Snyder is willing to waste $40 million dollars in order to pork out his pet projects; but the man doesn't strike me as the type to do such a thing.

As for gas taxes being higher now than 40 years ago, well, yes they are. The gasoline tax is and always has been a fixed amount per gallon. Inflation eats away at the purchasing power of the tax collected. So while the tax collected remains the same, the road repair costs rise.

But I said all this in my first post. Maybe you should go back and try reading it again.

What do you mean the gas tax is collected but doesn't go toward transportation? That is exactly what the gas tax is for.

Maybe you should re-read my earlier posts. Gas taxes have been raised numerous times since the 1950s, more than enough to keep up with inflation.

[ram2]

Originally Posted by magellan

Well you certainly don't want to build a financial model after Nevada's. That State is going down in flames. I even heard that UNLV is at risk of closing altogether. Imagine if that were the case in Michigan, its largest University on the verge of collapse. Texas is being supported by rapid growth and growth alone. Again, not a sustainable model for Michigan.

Comparing Michigan's budget to other state's is foolhearty. They're all set up differently, have different levels of infrastructure, different weather conditions, different political powers and business structures at work.

Personally I put about 10 gallons of gas a week in my car. If the gas tax went up $.09 or $.10/gallon, that'd be a whopping 90 cents or a dollar a week out of my hide. I can't for a million years understand why people wouldn't support that, to bring Michigan roads up to speed in 5 - 10 years (it will take at least that long). Conversely though, I hate when we get our registration fees every year. And to think that it might double irks me even more.

Why won't people take that? Because every time the gas tax is raised we are told the roads will be fixed. Then 5-10 years after the gas taxes go up, the roads are still crap.