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I know I'm probably delusional, but I keep hoping this sad spectacle with Murdoch will make at least some people rethink FOX news. I haven't been able to stomach FOX on many levels, but the top reason why I can't watch is their endless talk about "elites." Rupert Murdoch has always been one of the most elite people in the world. It's been the pot calling the kettle black for decades now. We probably still only know the tip of the iceberg of what all has gone on in this empire built on shady dealings and outright law breaking.
And they want the American people to support them ? Just how dumb do these neo cons think we are. I really would like to consider making a difference in our home state and the Nation, but the frustration I think would drive me nuts. I think serving in a new state and status Country might be more my calling, but, so far am not holding my breath.
As I drive around Michigan, all I get on my radio is right-wing stuff. Strange - even though Democrats do very well in elections, Fox claims that most Americans want to hear "Republicans good-Democrats bad" over and over. Anything wrong with this picture?
Even though the airwaves belong to the people, whoever owns the media can get away with a lot.
Since it takes money, I have wondered where are the wealthy liberals doing the Murdoch thing?
As I drive around Michigan, all I get on my radio is right-wing stuff. Strange - even though Democrats do very well in elections, Fox claims that most Americans want to hear "Republicans good-Democrats bad" over and over. Anything wrong with this picture?
Even though the airwaves belong to the people, whoever owns the media can get away with a lot.
Since it takes money, I have wondered where are the wealthy liberals doing the Murdoch thing?
Who knows, I have a friend here in Marquette that listens to Rush Limbaugh every day, yet he is a devout Democrat. Who would think ? For me, rush would bring back my IBS big time, just not worth the risk , even if I wanted to.
Isn't Michael Savage just about as bad as Limbaugh? I remember when he was on TV then got cancelled when he made the statement that he hoped certain people got AIDs and died. He would be a good one for the crowd who cheered at that one debate at the idea of uninsured people just dying. I don't know how these folks have anyone listening to them much less millions. There seems to be nothing to ugly for these folks to say.
I know I'm probably delusional, but I keep hoping this sad spectacle with Murdoch will make at least some people rethink FOX news. I haven't been able to stomach FOX on many levels, but the top reason why I can't watch is their endless talk about "elites." Rupert Murdoch has always been one of the most elite people in the world. It's been the pot calling the kettle black for decades now. We probably still only know the tip of the iceberg of what all has gone on in this empire built on shady dealings and outright law breaking.
Well GWB said the "haves and have-mores" were his base. Is this not an elite? The "elite" hated by Fox is what they consider an intellectual, free-thinking, non-conformist elite (people they can't sway) thus the ongoing bluster.
Regarding Murdoch: remember who owns the media. Most Americans who listen to the mainstream media don't know what's happening to him in the UK - and Fox probably is not covering the story for obvious reasons. So much for the myth of the "liberal" media.
If you want your skin to crawl, don't forget Mark Levin with his definition of "equality" - that a poor man has the "right" to contribute as much money to candidates as a rich man.
That is some seriously warped thinking. No, seriously. I'm not even offended. I am impressed.
Warped to you. Music to others. I'm not alone. I'm in the majority. Soon as you realize that, you'll realize where this country is going...and that you can't change it.
If you believe Fox News in its entirety, you are wrong. That's it. No wiggle room. Murdoch is a criminal. Nothing less. If you don't believe that, you are in serious denial. Make sure the facts you use to base your value system are real, and not just self serving. The fact the less taxes is "better for you" doesn't make it right.
I'm really disgusted with you for your statement of disgust in me. Shows the conservative mindset. Everyone is isn't with is is SICK.
And to the gentleman who suggested I'm a youngster. I'm not that young. I remember LBJ. He was wrong. We eventually realized that. This message is about what is right NOW. Not what is done. You don't see me talking about GWB, even though I think he's a disgusting, neo-conservative, Christian snob. I don't talk about that because it's irrelevant to moving forward.
It's makes me laugh that neo-cons and conservatives don't think revolution is possible. Its happened in many other first world countries. Why not here? Because America is TOO GOOD? HA! You really are smoking some good stuff. But you are in luck! Because in your world, cigarettes don't have any harmful side effects, because that's GOOD BUSINESS.
You're right...all I can do is laugh...at you.
Last edited by nycinmichigan; 05-02-2012 at 02:48 AM..
Warped to you. Music to others. I'm not alone. I'm in the majority. Soon as you realize that, you'll realize where this country is going...and that you can't change it.
If you believe Fox News in its entirety, you are wrong. That's it. No wiggle room. Murdoch is a criminal. Nothing less. If you don't believe that, you are in serious denial. Make sure the facts you use to base your value system are real, and not just self serving. The fact the less taxes is "better for you" doesn't make it right.
I'm really disgusted with you for your statement of disgust in me. Shows the conservative mindset. Everyone is isn't with is is SICK.
And to the gentleman who suggested I'm a youngster. I'm not that young. I remember LBJ. He was wrong. We eventually realized that. This message is about what is right NOW. Not what is done. You don't see me talking about GWB, even though I think he's a disgusting, neo-conservative, Christian snob. I don't talk about that because it's irrelevant to moving forward.
It's makes me laugh that neo-cons and conservatives don't think revolution is possible. Its happened in many other first world countries. Why not here? Because America is TOO GOOD? HA! You really are smoking some good stuff. But you are in luck! Because in your world, cigarettes don't have any harmful side effects, because that's GOOD BUSINESS.
You're right...all I can do is laugh...at you.
I'm sorry, but your comments about the police being pawns of conservatives to "keep the poor people down" really did it for me. The cops that I know are just regular people who try to do a good job. There is no conspiracy. Yes, I know there is a disparity in how white collar and blue collar crime are handled. That bothers me too. But the fact is that a lot of violent crimes that scare the pi$$ out of people are committed by the poor. The general public (rich, poor, middle class) is most concerned with things that make them fear for the safety of their families. That's why so much law enforcement effort is spent on dealing with the everyday garbage that happens. And the police don't exist just to "protect the wealth" of the rich. Good lord, they spend most of their time every day trying to help people who ARE poor, who are being victimized by other poor people.
I think your biggest problem is that you take the most egregious examples and apply them to ALL businessmen or ALL police or ALL conservatives. You are seriously underestimating the number of honest and upstanding people out there.
But if we are talking about shadiness, lets not forget that the growing problem of big business being in bed with the left. There is plenty of that going on. In fact, some businesses probably prefer a left-leaning government. The left likes to pick and choose winners and losers in the business world. Nothing better than if your business is chosen to be a "winner." You better believe they are lining up to get those rules written in a way that benefits them.
Last edited by michigan83; 05-02-2012 at 03:34 AM..
Talk about stereotyping , the right in the past has always been guilty in the extreme For most of my business years I was over burdened with continuous crap from the right wing,. Their letters always started with ' Ofcoarse as a small business man, and the dangerious policies of the Left your contributions " Never mind I have a registered Democrat all my life. I always hated the speakers our trade group booked at our national conventions, always from the right wing.
I'm sorry, but your comments about the police being pawns of conservatives to "keep the poor people down" really did it for me. The cops that I know are just regular people who try to do a good job. There is no conspiracy. Yes, I know there is a disparity in how white collar and blue collar crime are handled. That bothers me too. But the fact is that a lot of violent crimes that scare the pi$$ out of people are committed by the poor. The general public (rich, poor, middle class) is most concerned with things that make them fear for the safety of their families. That's why so much law enforcement effort is spent on dealing with the everyday garbage that happens. And the police don't exist just to "protect the wealth" of the rich. Good lord, they spend most of their time every day trying to help people who ARE poor, who are being victimized by other poor people.
I think your biggest problem is that you take the most egregious examples and apply them to ALL businessmen or ALL police or ALL conservatives. You are seriously underestimating the number of honest and upstanding people out there.
But if we are talking about shadiness, lets not forget that the growing problem of big business being in bed with the left. There is plenty of that going on. In fact, some businesses probably prefer a left-leaning government. The left likes to pick and choose winners and losers in the business world. Nothing better than if your business is chosen to be a "winner." You better believe they are lining up to get those rules written in a way that benefits them.
For the record your post came off very much like "You are seriously underestimating the number of honest and upstanding people out there" meant that the ONLY HONEST AND REAL AMERICANS ARE CONSERVATIVE PEOPLE. That you CANNOT be UPSTANDING unless you are CONSERVATIVE. That is offensive and incorrect.
It's not so much the individual police officers that I'm concerned with. The media has worked everyone up to a frenzy thinking that crime is around every corner and that if we don't have a modern inquisition against the common criminal, our life is threatened. It is not true. They aren't the problem. The laws are the problem. Did you know that beating the snot out of someone is a misdemeanor and stealing $1000.00 is a felony? I'd much rather be hit than lose $1000, but in our legal system the protection on money and property is held at a very high regard. As far as murder, rape, arson, kidnapping, etc., these crimes are not a point of contention for anyone. It's obvious those people are a problem and need to be dealt with. My problem is that if you burglarize a pizza parlor and steal 2500.00 you spend 5 years in prison, but if you embezzle 20 million dollars you do 8 months; maybe. The fact remains that there is a "ruling class" and those people in it aren't subject to the same rules as everyone else. I am for the elimination of that.
As for lining up to get with the Democrats, let me repeat. I am an American Socialist. I do not fully support the democratic party. The following summary of our/my beliefs:
THE SOCIALIST PARTY strives to establish a radical democracy
that places people's lives under their own control - a non-racist, classless, socialist society... where working people own and control the means of production and distribution through democratically controlled public agencies; where full employment is realized for everyone who wants to work; where workers have the right to form unions freely, and to strike and engage in other forms of job actions; and where the production of society is used for the benefit of all humanity, not for the private profit of a few. We believe socialism and democracy are one and indivisible. The working class is in a key and central position to fight back against the ruling capitalist class and its power. The working class is the major force worldwide that can lead the way to a socialist future - to a real radical democracy from below. The Socialist Party fights for progressive changes compatible with a socialist future. We support militant working class struggles and electoral action, independent of the capitalist controlled two-party system, to present socialist alternatives. We strive for democratic revolutions - radical and fundamental changes in the structure and quality of economic, political, and personal relations - to abolish the power now exercised by the few who control great wealth and the government. The Socialist Party is a democratic, multi-tendency organization, with structure and practices visible and accessible to all members.
I believe in the above. Especially a) production of society is used for the benefit of all humanity, not for the private profit of a few; b) to abolish the power now exercised by the few who control great wealth and the government.
The truth of our problems in the world boils down to the following (from Roger Water's the Wall Website):
HUMANS need the protection of THE RULE OF LAW. The trick would be for US to agree upon what THE LAW should be NOW, (something WE have been working on for a few hundred years), but also to agree that as WE develop OUR understanding of both OURSELVES and OUR surroundings, WE will have insights and may need to modify THE LAWS that govern US. THE LAW should not be written in STONE. Please take note all followers of MOSES and other dead prophets.
Which leads me neatly to my next point.
In my view.
RELIGION provides A WALL between US and the reality of OUR lives.
Also,
There is a WALL between:
RICH and POOR,
NORTH and SOUTH
THE OLD and NEW WORLDS and THE THIRD WORLD
It is A WALL of FEAR and GREED
There is enough of everything in THE WORLD for us all to have enough to eat, to be warm and dry and to have a colour TV and a car. WE are taught to FEAR that if WE share what WE have with THEM, WE won’t have anything left for US.
WE also FEAR that THEY may try to take what WE have away from US, so WE spend WAY more than THEY would need to feed, house, clothe, and EDUCATE THEMSELVES, on weapons to prevent THEM from taking what WE have away from US.
There is another WALL between US and the reality of OUR lives.
This WALL is called THE MEDIA. This WALL is a tool that is used to divert US from inconvenient truths.
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Perhaps I should stop now, before I alienate anybody.
I want what is right for this country. I think that is what's right. I completely and fully acknowledge you want what is right. I just completely and totally disagree with you about how to get there.
For the record your post came off very much like "You are seriously underestimating the number of honest and upstanding people out there" meant that the ONLY HONEST AND REAL AMERICANS ARE CONSERVATIVE PEOPLE. That you CANNOT be UPSTANDING unless you are CONSERVATIVE. That is offensive and incorrect.
Well, it shouldn't have come off that way. I was only responding to the comments you had made in the previous post, which means I was referring to every group of people that you had criticized in your post. Since there are plenty of liberal police officers and businessmen, I was inherently defending them too. For the record, I think most non-conservatives are good and upstanding people too. I just disagree with them.
Anyway, I did read all of your post, and I found it interesting. Thanks for taking the time to explain all of your views. I don't think I have ever debated with an "official" socialist before, so that is kinda cool. I realize that your motive is to create a better society, just like me. But I think your ideas have been tried before without much success (I'm sure you've heard that a billion times too.) You know, due to the whole human nature thing that I keep talking about. I think it makes successful socialism impossible, because humans will find ways to get out of the numbness of "perfect equality."
But, anyhow... there's probably not much point in continuing to go back and forth, because we are on different planets.
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