[Perferator]

Originally Posted by stanman13

I used to think it was the 12th Street riots that killed Detroit as well. But a little more research revealed that the exodus began well before that happened. I believe that Detroit's destruction came from one of the very things that made it great. As animatedmartian said, the Big 3 began to move operations outside the city, where land was cheaper. Also the completion of the expressways provided an easy means for people who worked in the city to live outside of it, and the age of the commute began.

Poor race relations did play a role in it as well. The razing of Black Bottom for the construction of 75 and 94 meant that those poor blacks had to seek new neighborhoods, and that caused some trouble. That doesn't tell the whole story, though. I think the relocation of the auto plants (and the fact that the companies were allowed to simply abandon the old plants such as Packard and Fisher Body 1) really were the first seeds of the conditions we see today.

Of course Detroit is not the whole of Michigan. But how can a State expect to be successful if her flagship city is a shambles?

Exactly and I agree. The Riots provided a shove to anyone thinking about moving out. The automaker exodus took the money away to the suburbs.....and here is one more....Coleman Young sealed the coffin by pouring all the money into Downtown while the neighborhoods rotted in hopeless decay.

[HomeIsWhere...]

is a good thing!

The Cities Where A Paycheck Stretches The Furthest-By Joel Kotkin-July 09 2012

One major surprise is the metro area in third place: Detroit-Warren-Livonia, Mich. This can be explained by the relatively high wages paid in the resurgent auto industry and, as we have reported earlier, a huge surge in well-paying STEM (science, technology, engineering and math-related) jobs. Combine this with some of the most affordable housing in the nation and sizable reductions in unemployment — down 5% in Michigan over the past two years, the largest such drop in the nation. This longtime sad sack region has reason to feel hopeful.

The Cities Where A Paycheck Stretches The Furthest | Joel Kotkin

[Coldjensens]

Originally Posted by Perferator

Exactly and I agree. The Riots provided a shove to anyone thinking about moving out. The automaker exodus took the money away to the suburbs.....and here is one more....Coleman Young sealed the coffin by pouring all the money into Downtown while the neighborhoods rotted in hopeless decay.

It did for my parents. I am not sure which riot it was, but when a tank drove down their street my mother said - "time to leave!" I think they moved the next day.

[detroit's own]

Originally Posted by Latina7

But, what will it take to change Detroians' perception of what they are doing wrong to ruin their city? A lot of these people that make ghettoes are totally undisciplined, having grown in disorganized households, without a father figure, no moral values, or values of any kind, except how to steal FROM OTHERS. Of course, NOT ALL PEOPLE IN DETROIT ARE LIKE THIS....... SO How does one changes a disinfranchised mind? EDUCATION? But, they do not want to be educated, they like the status quo......

And yes, Michigan is a beautiful state, with many beautiful people. I want to visit Michigan, if I can find a way out on how to stay clear from DETROIT!!!!!!!

yes because everybody in the burbs grew up with a father in their home smh

[detroit's own]

lmao at all of the suburbanites always trying to make it seem like WE push you all away. Like someone else mentioned it is us, Detroiters, who drive 30 min for a mall or even a stupid chipotle (sarcastic). We aren't funny acting about coming to a suburb for anything (I should be saying them because I'm not one of those Detroiters). Shame on the state of MI. This is the exact reason why I try to spend all of my money in Detroit and not the suburbs

[michigan83]

Originally Posted by detroit's own

lmao at all of the suburbanites always trying to make it seem like WE push you all away. Like someone else mentioned it is us, Detroiters, who drive 30 min for a mall or even a stupid chipotle (sarcastic). We aren't funny acting about coming to a suburb for anything (I should be saying them because I'm not one of those Detroiters). Shame on the state of MI. This is the exact reason why I try to spend all of my money in Detroit and not the suburbs

You do realize that "the state of Michigan" and "the burbs" are not the same thing, right? You assume that everyone who criticizes Detroit lives in the suburbs, but that isn't the case.

This thread is about Detroit vs. the rest of Michigan. A lot of us are not in suburban Detroit at all. I haven't been to Detroit since 2009. Not because I don't like it (I do like to visit), I just haven't needed to go there for any reason and I don't have money to spend on Lions tickets.

[Arthur Digby Sellers]

Originally Posted by detroit's own

This is the exact reason why I try to spend all of my money in Detroit and not the suburbs

Do you think you could ask your fellow Detroiters to do the same? I know our police departments would appreciate the decrease in crime and shoplifting at our shopping establishments.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by stanman13

I used to think it was the 12th Street riots that killed Detroit as well. But a little more research revealed that the exodus began well before that happened. I believe that Detroit's destruction came from one of the very things that made it great. As animatedmartian said, the Big 3 began to move operations outside the city, where land was cheaper. Also the completion of the expressways provided an easy means for people who worked in the city to live outside of it, and the age of the commute began.

Poor race relations did play a role in it as well. The razing of Black Bottom for the construction of 75 and 94 meant that those poor blacks had to seek new neighborhoods, and that caused some trouble. That doesn't tell the whole story, though. I think the relocation of the auto plants (and the fact that the companies were allowed to simply abandon the old plants such as Packard and Fisher Body 1) really were the first seeds of the conditions we see today.

Of course Detroit is not the whole of Michigan. But how can a State expect to be successful if her flagship city is a shambles?

Exactly right. When the major employers move out of a city to where people have begun to live in the suburbs, then it becomes less and less important for people to travel into central city for anything. They might go in for a show or a game, maybe get dinner, but they're back in their cars and headed back out of town. They do most of their commerce close to home and close to work, in Troy and Birmingham and Novi and Auburn Hills (and now more and more in Livingston County).

The Big 3 and other employers do have some presence in the city of Detroit, but most of the employment is in Oakland County, particularly the high paying professional/white collar jobs. I believe I read a while ago that Detroit is one of the few metro areas where commuters predominantly drive "suburb-to-suburb" to get to work. Contrast that with Chicago where nearly 800,000 people travel into the Loop and near downtown Chicago for work (and 80% of those people take transit). That's why Chicago's hottest neighborhoods lie along the L-lines and the Metra, and why their downtown area is growing so fast. It's where the employment is. Millions of people commute daily into Manhattan and the borroughs of NYC for work.

That documentary about Indianapolis was interesting. It's a beautiful city now for its size. But even sections of the city of Indianapolis (outside of downtown) are losing people quickly, and poverty is rising rapidly.

Detroit's only saving grace is to attract employers back into the city, which is happening somewhat with Quicken and Blue Cross and GM and the hospitals, but it needs to be ramped up. There's no way you'll attract middle class families to move back in if their jobs are in Wixom or Plymouth, particularly with the infrastructure, schools and safety issues. You may draw "young people" and empty nesters with the current offerings, but not nearly fast enough.

Frankly Chicago and most cities can't do it either. There are still areas of Chicago outside of downtown that are shedding people at a breakneck pace, for the same reasons (poor schools, crime). I just saw that Chicago Public Schools is closing 120 schools in predominantly African American sections of the city. It's an "urban issue" happening all over the country. The main difference is that all of those issues are hidden from visitors to Chicago, because they mainly stay in a 5 or 6 square mile area of the Loop, River North, Lincoln Park and Wrigleyville.

I'm glad someone bumped this because it's an interesting discussion.

[Tekkie]

I think people tend to associate a state with its largest city. Detroit was and still is the primary economic driver in Michigan's economy. And when your primary economic driver is hollowed out and weak, that has a tendency to trickle through the rest of the state.

Metro Detroit's situation is unique in that the metro area is so expansive. This is only a guess, but I would think that there are far more jobs in the suburbs than in Detroit these days.

[313Weather]

If Michigan =/=Detroit, then let the city file for chapter 9 bankruptcy.

The fact that the state of Michigan is bending over backwards to avoid the inevitable implies that Detroit does equal Michigan.

/thread.