[magellan]

It should also be noted that the Gross Domestic Product (the main indicator of economic output) for Michigan is about $390 Billion, with the Detroit - Warren - Livonia MSA making up about $200 Billion of that (55%).

[Arthur Digby Sellers]

Originally Posted by Tekkie

I think people tend to associate a state with its largest city. Detroit was and still is the primary economic driver in Michigan's economy. And when your primary economic driver is hollowed out and weak, that has a tendency to trickle through the rest of the state.

Not really. The state's economy is bouncing back without Detroit.

[hoooka]

Originally Posted by Colts

Dear World,

All of Michigan does not equal Detroit! I'm tired of non-Michiganders conflating the two as if they're interchangeable. Detroit and Michigan are two completely different entities.

Are there places in Michigan where you can find blight? Yes, but those issues are hardly unique to Michigan (Cleveland, etc).

When I think of Michigan, I think of the lakes, forests, etc...not some rusted out Cutlass from 1986 next to a burned out house. No one's saying that Detroit doesn't have issues, but those issues are Detroit's--not Michigan's!

I hear ya, I have to tell people when they ask where are you from, that I am from Michigan and not Detroit. I would not now nor never live in or near Detroit. Its a sink hole of human existence. I came from where everyone who lived in Detroit wanted to or went on vacation to live. Northern Michigan. I only left because I just can't take the cold and can not afford to live back and forth yet. TC, Ptown and Harbor springs are a few places that I love. Summer is almost unbeatable there. Its has the best of all the worlds. But snow is not for me so alas, its not to be for now.

[Tekkie]

Originally Posted by Arthur Digby Sellers

Not really. The state's economy is bouncing back without Detroit.

I don't disagree. I was just pointing out that it's unusual that the state doesn't really have that major economic core like other states. I live in Colorado now and Denver is at the core. There are other thriving cities like Boulder, Fort Collins and Colorado Springs, but Denver is undoubtedly the economic center of the state.

I have wondered as of late if another city will eventually become the major economic core of Michigan. Grand Rapids? Lansing? Ann Arbor? I'm talking in a traditional since, a city with a large central business district and a large residential/industrial presence encompassing it. I personally think that Grand Rapids or Lansing is currently best situated for such a transition in terms of infrastructure, economic strength, and location.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by Tekkie

I don't disagree. I was just pointing out that it's unusual that the state doesn't really have that major economic core like other states. I live in Colorado now and Denver is at the core. There are other thriving cities like Boulder, Fort Collins and Colorado Springs, but Denver is undoubtedly the economic center of the state.

I have wondered as of late if another city will eventually become the major economic core of Michigan. Grand Rapids? Lansing? Ann Arbor? I'm talking in a traditional since, a city with a large central business district and a large residential/industrial presence encompassing it. I personally think that Grand Rapids is currently best situated for such a transition.

It'll never happen, or maybe in 50 years. Grand Rapids is great, and growing, but it doesn't have the major employers (yet) that can make it grow fast enough. And it won't grow just by people moving here for retirement, like Southern cities. Grand Rapids metro is currently around 780,000, and growing about 50,000 people/decade. You really have to be more than 1 Million in population in the U.S to be any kind of player (major hub airport, pro sports teams, major Fortune 500 employers, high end retailers). You can do the math, but GR is about 4 decades away from breaking 1 Million. Detroit metro is 4 Million.

Correction: from 1990 - 2000, GR grew by 100,000. It it returns to that kind of growth, it could surpass 1 Million in 20 years.

[Tekkie]

Originally Posted by magellan

It'll never happen, or maybe in 50 years. Grand Rapids is great, and growing, but it doesn't have the major employers (yet) that can make it grow fast enough. And it won't grow just by people moving here for retirement, like Southern cities. Grand Rapids metro is currently around 780,000, and growing about 50,000 people/decade. You really have to be more than 1 Million in population in the U.S to be any kind of player (major hub airport, pro sports teams, major Fortune 500 employers, high end retailers). You can do the math, but GR is about 4 decades away from breaking 1 Million. Detroit metro is 4 Million.

Correction: from 1990 - 2000, GR grew by 100,000. It it returns to that kind of growth, it could surpass 1 Million in 20 years.

Well I'm not without hope that Detroit can recover. It might take some time, but there is so much opportunity there. One thing that I'd like to see happen is that they use a bunch of that open space they now have available to make a large extension of greenways and bike paths. Having lived in Denver for the past 5 years, I can attest to the success of this type of infrastructure. To attract more young professionals, not only does there need to be a good job market for them, but also opportunities for them to live outside of work. The cycling culture is growing in a lot of cities. Why not in Detroit? From the Motor City, USA to the Cycle City, USA.

[canudigit]

Originally Posted by Tekkie

Well I'm not without hope that Detroit can recover. It might take some time, but there is so much opportunity there. One thing that I'd like to see happen is that they use a bunch of that open space they now have available to make a large extension of greenways and bike paths. Having lived in Denver for the past 5 years, I can attest to the success of this type of infrastructure. To attract more young professionals, not only does there need to be a good job market for them, but also opportunities for them to live outside of work. The cycling culture is growing in a lot of cities. Why not in Detroit? From the Motor City, USA to the Cycle City, USA.

A noble thought, and a good idea. The problem right now, though, is that that open space is interspersed with very dangerous ghetto (since most of it was also dangerous ghetto before the houses were torn down) and it wouldn't be a safe place for people to cycle, and Detroit does not have the police resources to ensure the cyclists' safety. The urban blight and crime has to be brought under control much more than it is at the present time before anyone would even want to ride their bicycle through most of Detroit, and that all costs money, something the city of Detroit does not have.

I'm not trying to be a naysayer or rain on anyone's parade, and no one would love to see the once great city of Detroit turn around more than me, but in practical terms, there are a lot of very large hurdles that need to be jumped before it can happen. The mayor seems to be on the right track, now if the city council would just stop fighting him just for the sake of fighting him and put the citizens first, that would be a great first step.

[Tekkie]

Originally Posted by canudigit

A noble thought, and a good idea. The problem right now, though, is that that open space is interspersed with very dangerous ghetto (since most of it was also dangerous ghetto before the houses were torn down) and it wouldn't be a safe place for people to cycle, and Detroit does not have the police resources to ensure the cyclists' safety. The urban blight and crime has to be brought under control much more than it is at the present time before anyone would even want to ride their bicycle through most of Detroit, and that all costs money, something the city of Detroit does not have.

I'm not trying to be a naysayer or rain on anyone's parade, and no one would love to see the once great city of Detroit turn around more than me, but in practical terms, there are a lot of very large hurdles that need to be jumped before it can happen. The mayor seems to be on the right track, now if the city council would just stop fighting him just for the sake of fighting him and put the citizens first, that would be a great first step.

Start small and build out. As the saying goes, "If you build it, they will come". Detroit needs to contract before it can grow again. If they were to use this idea, they can build out from safe areas. They already have bike lanes along Jefferson and the river front. Just keep extending that and people will move around it.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by Tekkie

Start small and build out. As the saying goes, "If you build it, they will come". Detroit needs to contract before it can grow again. If they were to use this idea, they can build out from safe areas. They already have bike lanes along Jefferson and the river front. Just keep extending that and people will move around it.

They need a mix of adding amenities along with attracting employers, which will attract job seekers and residents. Employers paying taxes into the city can then help pay for all these bike trails and green spaces and schools. You can't put the cart before the horse. It does no good to attract young professionals if they have no where to work, and the average age for starting a small business is 35 (not college graduate aged, like many would believe).

Those cities that have all those great recreational amenities had the jobs first, then the amenities came later (which fueled more growth).

This is an interesting article. Making demolition of the blighted neighborhoods in Detroit more efficient, done by one of the country's largest homebuilders, Pulte. Kind of a sad reality, but needed.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...o-fight-blight

[magellan]

Originally Posted by Tekkie

Well I'm not without hope that Detroit can recover. It might take some time, but there is so much opportunity there. One thing that I'd like to see happen is that they use a bunch of that open space they now have available to make a large extension of greenways and bike paths. Having lived in Denver for the past 5 years, I can attest to the success of this type of infrastructure. To attract more young professionals, not only does there need to be a good job market for them, but also opportunities for them to live outside of work. The cycling culture is growing in a lot of cities. Why not in Detroit? From the Motor City, USA to the Cycle City, USA.

I'm not either, but it needs a major plan. Draw employers and jobs, reduce blight, get the infrastructure up and running again (like basic streetlights), provide incentives for people to live in the city, and it will grow back in pockets and fill in all the rest.

If you don't draw jobs, you might as well go home. You can't build a city with unemployed people.