[timberline742]

Originally Posted by jackmichigan

Yeah...I think it's disgusting how much they are clear-cutting our public forest lands. Both the state and federal governments seem to be mismanaging our forests. It's especially bad in the northeast part of the Lower Peninsula. If you use Google Earth--or any satellite imagery--you will see vast tracts of clear cuts. When you drive in those areas, you'll just note a thin buffer which is left along the roadways--trying to hide the devastation from the public eye. (And these aren't clear cuts as part of Kirkland's Warbler management.) Many of these lands were planted by CCC crews in the 1930s. They're finally getting to the point where they could managed be for diversity, enhancing forest characteristics. Instead, they're being clear cut--back to square one. It seems that the Michigan Department of Natural Resources is trying to live up to its old moniker: DNR - Do Nothing Right.

Clear cutting isn't mismanaging. It can be mismanaging (on heavy slopes, or in some mixed woodland situations), but in many cases it is a regeneration technique, esp with pulp plantations.

[jackmichigan]

Originally Posted by timberline742

Clear cutting isn't mismanaging. It can be mismanaging (on heavy slopes, or in some mixed woodland situations), but in many cases it is a regeneration technique, esp with pulp plantations.

In and of itself, clearcutting is not mismanagement. But you need to look at the on-the-ground resources being impacted to determine the appropriate level of forestry treatment. You also need to consider the habitat requirements of a great many species which will be impacted by the forestry treatments selected.

Unfortunately, many of today's forestry practices are politically driven--designed to benefit a few at the expense of the public and at the expense of a healthy ecosystem. Our politicians made a grave mistake by placing federal public forest land under the auspices of the Department of Agriculture. Forests should not be considered merely a "crop" to be harvested, but we need to be cognizant of the significant biological, environmental and, yes, economic benefits that forests can provide. Public forest land should not relegated to being "pulp plantations"--even though there can be a limited role of such in an overall plan. The problem is that these forest lands are being clearcut with virtually no other forestry options being practiced. The only place in this area where selective logging is being practiced--which can maintain forest habitat, promote diversity and which can lead to higher end, higher value timber resources--is along River Road which is readily visible by the public. Perhaps if you were familiar with the area you would have a different opinion about the "mismanagement" that these extensive clearcuts represent. Or perhaps not.

Due to the plantings in the 1930s by the Civilian Conservation Corps, we have a unique opportunity in this area to promote the recovery of a healthy northern pine forest ecosystem. Unfortunately, and shamefully, that opportunity is being squandered.

If anyone would like to experience the grandeur of what Michigan's ancient pine forests were like, you should visit Hartwick Pines State Park which is northeast of Grayling. It's a truly a crime that we were robbed of our old-growth pine forests by the lumber barons who thought of nothing but themselves. We should try to do better for the benefit of future generations.

[Giesela]

The way they replant is terrible for the environment. Total monoculture. Might as well turn it into desert. All those stands of pines are just devoid of insects, birds.

Then there is new new biggest ever particle board factory going in at Gaylord. Of course they couldn;t find a currently ruined spot by taking down an existing building or anything but are razing huge tracts of habitat to build it.

Most people don't realize just how much pollution still exists in MI from all the old paper plants, how deep ground water is still contaminated and slowly spreading. This is just another environmental disaster.
Unfortunately the only way to compete with China on price is to do their best to cheap out on environmental protections. Just like China has and does.
If you think there are govt regulations that will make them keep everything on the up and up you are seriously naive or just rationalizing your desired outcome.

[Giesela]

The way they replant is terrible for the environment. Total monoculture. Might as well turn it into desert. All those stands of pines are just devoid of insects, birds.

Then there is new new biggest ever particle board factory going in at Gaylord. Of course they couldn;t find a currently ruined spot by taking down an existing building or anything but are razing huge tracts of habitat to build it.

Most people don't realize just how much pollution still exists in MI from all the old paper plants, how deep ground water is still contaminated and slowly spreading. This is just another environmental disaster.
Unfortunately the only way to compete with China on price is to do their best to cheap out on environmental protections. Just like China has and does.
If you think there are govt regulations that will make them keep everything on the up and up you are seriously naive or just rationalizing your desired outcome.

[michmoldman]

I seen a lumber company in the U.P a few days ago that had to of had a million logs on their property. I never seen anything like it.

[Vegabern]

There will be several forestry jobs opening with the US Forest Service in Upper Michigan very shortly. Starting from entry level to more experienced. Check Gladstone and Rapid River, MI in the next few months.


(Trust me)

[Encourage323]

Originally Posted by jackmichigan

Yeah...I think it's disgusting how much they are clear-cutting our public forest lands. Both the state and federal governments seem to be mismanaging our forests. It's especially bad in the northeast part of the Lower Peninsula. If you use Google Earth--or any satellite imagery--you will see vast tracts of clear cuts. When you drive in those areas, you'll just note a thin buffer which is left along the roadways--trying to hide the devastation from the public eye. (And these aren't clear cuts as part of Kirkland's Warbler management.) Many of these lands were planted by CCC crews in the 1930s. They're finally getting to the point where they could managed be for diversity, enhancing forest characteristics. Instead, they're being clear cut--back to square one. It seems that the Michigan Department of Natural Resources is trying to live up to its old moniker: DNR - Do Nothing Right.

As a child of a former DNR employee, I find your DNR comment unkind and pointless. You made your point about clear cutting. Perhaps instead of belittling the DNR, you should offer alternatives to what you see as the problem. Send letters, get your voice heard in the area that will help your desired goal. My father worked in the Upper Peninsula for many years and did a fantastic job. If he were alive, you would have a comment to read that would bring you down a notch and inform you.

[jackmichigan]

Originally Posted by Encourage323

As a child of a former DNR employee, I find your DNR comment unkind and pointless. You made your point about clear cutting. Perhaps instead of belittling the DNR, you should offer alternatives to what you see as the problem. Send letters, get your voice heard in the area that will help your desired goal. My father worked in the Upper Peninsula for many years and did a fantastic job. If he were alive, you would have a comment to read that would bring you down a notch and inform you.

Thanks for reviving this thread. Hopefully more will learn of the terrible forestry practices that are decimating our public forests--reminiscent of practices in the 1800s, but a bit more nuanced. There are a lot of good people who work for the DNR--and at MDEQ for that matter. Many of them are my friends (I used to work for the state) and they, too, express concern about the policies being handed down to them. The policies are being dictated by the politicians and political appointees who see dollar signs above all else--serving the special interests who benefit. I'm not knocking DNR employees.

For the record, a number of people and groups have spoken out against the prevailing forestry practices to no avail. The special interests still reign supreme. That's Politics 101.

[timberline742]

Clear cutting though isn't an inherently bad thing. It's often quite a good thing. It's a forest regeneration technique for even aged stands. And clear cuts lead to early successional young forest and shrubland creation, which is critical for wildlife. We work to promote clear cuts when we can on lands to increase Ruffed Grouse, deer, etc habitat. Much better than selective cuts for wildlife in many instances. People just don't like the look of clear cuts, which is why outreach and education has to be part of the equation.


Now, on steep slopes where erosion are a big issue (like much of the PNW), that's a different story.

[michikawa]

If people from the lower third dislike Upper/Northern Michigan forestry practices so much, I suggest that they let their farm fields go fallow and they too can have thousands of acres of forests just like they had 200 years ago.