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I've spent several hours over the course of the past two days reading with great alacrity the racial and sociocultural overtones prevalent in many of the threads on the Michigan and Detroit forums, and I'm just sitting here scratching my head to ponder why these issues must permeate everything you people discuss?
That brou-ha-ha of a thread regarding the pack of savage ghetto kids who brutally beat that mentally-ill man on a bicycle was the last straw for me. Sweeping and broad generalizations benefit nobody. I don't particularly think my home state of Pennsylvania and Michigan are very far removed at all in terms of demographics, economic struggles, political stances, etc., and yet we're a much more successfully integrated state in terms of racial and class differences. Why?
Here are some questions I have for you all:
What is up with people who can't afford to have children having them anyways as a means to burden we tax payers? Is it a "status symbol" to show off the fact that your private parts get plenty of recreational usage? Are people just ignorant of contraceptives measures? This doesn't only apply exclusively to minorities, either, before someone mentions that, as we also have the highly-publicized case of that unemployed leech from California who now has 14 children that she can't afford. As a student working full-time to put myself through college, I'm OUTRAGED that a portion of my income goes to support families like that.
Why do so few people in Michigan have college educations? I believe that only 10% of adults in Detroit have a college degree. Whether you people like it or not the days of graduating from high school and landing in a long-term blue-collar job at the town factory with generous compensation and benefits to support all of the townspeople are over. In order to be viable in today's marketplace you need not only a degree in most cases, but also an advanced degree. I am about to graduate with my Bachelor's Degree, and even I'm having difficulty obtaining a commensurate position with my upbeat persona and strong work ethic, hence why I'm considering going all the way for my Ph.D. to make myself more marketable to prospective skilled employers. Instead of whining "I can't find a job," as I see many on this state forum doing, why don't you research what opportunities ARE available and market yourselves appropriately? You may not have many opportunities working on an assembly line, but there ARE programs available to help you go back to school to learn how to be an LPN, earn your CDL, become an apprentice tradesman, etc. In my area the medical, transportation/warehousing, and skilled trades are HOT right now so you have only yourselves to blame for wallowing around in unemployed bliss for years on end when you can reinvent yourself to find a new avenue to support your family. Complaining feels so much better than actually showing initiative though, doesn't it?
Why is slavery still being referenced on this forum? The last time I checked your distant ancestry had VERY LITTLE impact upon the decisions you make TODAY to influence your OWN lives! How do I know this? I know of some affluent coal baron families in my own area who, after just a few generations, have tumbled far down the socioeconomic ladder. Similarly you should NOT be saying "I'm struggling today because my great-great-great grandfather was a slave." That's not an acceptable excuse. Slavery was abolished WAY over 100 years ago. Stop using it as a "crutch," educate yourself, and do something productive.
Everyone is so worried about being "politically correct." If we continue to tap-dance all around our societal ills, then how can we ever address them and hope to RECTIFY them?
I've spent several hours over the course of the past two days reading with great alacrity the racial and sociocultural overtones prevalent in many of the threads on the Michigan and Detroit forums, and I'm just sitting here scratching my head to ponder why these issues must permeate everything you people discuss?
That brou-ha-ha of a thread regarding the pack of savage ghetto kids who brutally beat that mentally-ill man on a bicycle was the last straw for me. Sweeping and broad generalizations benefit nobody. I don't particularly think my home state of Pennsylvania and Michigan are very far removed at all in terms of demographics, economic struggles, political stances, etc., and yet we're a much more successfully integrated state in terms of racial and class differences. Why?
Here are some questions I have for you all:
What is up with people who can't afford to have children having them anyways as a means to burden we tax payers? Is it a "status symbol" to show off the fact that your private parts get plenty of recreational usage? Are people just ignorant of contraceptives measures? This doesn't only apply exclusively to minorities, either, before someone mentions that, as we also have the highly-publicized case of that unemployed leech from California who now has 14 children that she can't afford. As a student working full-time to put myself through college, I'm OUTRAGED that a portion of my income goes to support families like that.
Why do so few people in Michigan have college educations? I believe that only 10% of adults in Detroit have a college degree. Whether you people like it or not the days of graduating from high school and landing in a long-term blue-collar job at the town factory with generous compensation and benefits to support all of the townspeople are over. In order to be viable in today's marketplace you need not only a degree in most cases, but also an advanced degree. I am about to graduate with my Bachelor's Degree, and even I'm having difficulty obtaining a commensurate position with my upbeat persona and strong work ethic, hence why I'm considering going all the way for my Ph.D. to make myself more marketable to prospective skilled employers. Instead of whining "I can't find a job," as I see many on this state forum doing, why don't you research what opportunities ARE available and market yourselves appropriately? You may not have many opportunities working on an assembly line, but there ARE programs available to help you go back to school to learn how to be an LPN, earn your CDL, become an apprentice tradesman, etc. In my area the medical, transportation/warehousing, and skilled trades are HOT right now so you have only yourselves to blame for wallowing around in unemployed bliss for years on end when you can reinvent yourself to find a new avenue to support your family. Complaining feels so much better than actually showing initiative though, doesn't it?
Why is slavery still being referenced on this forum? The last time I checked your distant ancestry had VERY LITTLE impact upon the decisions you make TODAY to influence your OWN lives! How do I know this? I know of some affluent coal baron families in my own area who, after just a few generations, have tumbled far down the socioeconomic ladder. Similarly you should NOT be saying "I'm struggling today because my great-great-great grandfather was a slave." That's not an acceptable excuse. Slavery was abolished WAY over 100 years ago. Stop using it as a "crutch," educate yourself, and do something productive.
Everyone is so worried about being "politically correct." If we continue to tap-dance all around our societal ills, then how can we ever address them and hope to RECTIFY them?
I agree with one exception. I only have high school and was not a great student. I am doing fine.
There are a lot of people in Michigan, and out of all those posts how many were the same people arguing back and forth? Most everyone I know (and I meet a lot of people) have no issues with color. I do agree with the kids thing. I am sick of people on welfare having more kids! It makes me sick!
As far a college education, if you have the will and the drive, I truely believe anything is possible without a college education. I knew a long time ago I was not gonna work for the man and make the man rich, so I worked my A** off to start my own business. Its just as much work as going to college if not more, but I have the will. Maybe most people here thought they would always work for GM, and also their kids so they figured they never needed to go to college. I agree, its getting to be a must nowadays, but it was not always that way. If the Government would make it easy to start a business, this depression would maybe end a little quicker.
Last edited by michmoldman; 02-20-2009 at 08:25 AM..
I agree with one exception. I only have high school and was not a great student. I am doing fine.
There are always exceptions to every rule, and I was just basing my observations off of my local area, where most who have been unemployed long-term don't have any sort of formal education or vocational training. It's amazing the number of Americans who feel "entitled" to having a good-paying job just fall into their laps. We're in a different economy nowadays, and it's "survival of the fittest."
There are always exceptions to every rule, and I was just basing my observations off of my local area, where most who have been unemployed long-term don't have any sort of formal education or vocational training. It's amazing the number of Americans who feel "entitled" to having a good-paying job just fall into their laps. We're in a different economy nowadays, and it's "survival of the fittest."
Thats exactly right. The saying "only the strong survive" will never be more true. These are the times where you will really see what your made of. In order to survive, your gonna have to want it more, be smarter, and work harder than the next guy.
Why do so few people in Michigan have college educations? I believe that only 10% of adults in Detroit have a college degree. Whether you people like it or not the days of graduating from high school and landing in a long-term blue-collar job at the town factory with generous compensation and benefits to support all of the townspeople are over. In order to be viable in today's marketplace you need not only a degree in most cases, but also an advanced degree. I am about to graduate with my Bachelor's Degree, and even I'm having difficulty obtaining a commensurate position with my upbeat persona and strong work ethic, hence why I'm considering going all the way for my Ph.D. to make myself more marketable to prospective skilled employers. Instead of whining "I can't find a job," as I see many on this state forum doing, why don't you research what opportunities ARE available and market yourselves appropriately? You may not have many opportunities working on an assembly line, but there ARE programs available to help you go back to school to learn how to be an LPN, earn your CDL, become an apprentice tradesman, etc. In my area the medical, transportation/warehousing, and skilled trades are HOT right now so you have only yourselves to blame for wallowing around in unemployed bliss for years on end when you can reinvent yourself to find a new avenue to support your family. Complaining feels so much better than actually showing initiative though, doesn't it?
I can understand where you are coming from, but there isn't a simple answer other than you never needed a degree before.
The long answer: We are talking about generations here. My parents never pushed college on me because they never needed it. And they were considered professionals. Unless you were going to be an engineer/ lawyer/doctor etc you didn't need one. And this isn't just a MI issue, this is everywhere. Because of all the factory jobs here it didn't make much sense to go to college only to end up making a lot less money than a blue collar worker. Not to mention, your parents, their parents, and all their brothers and sisters alreay had a factory job.
My wife's uncle makes near 100k on the line. What would he have to do to for a living to match that? 4 years in undergrad, plus two for his masters to become a lawyer, accountant, engineer etc. Not to mention years of XP. Plus he is in his 50's.
I spent 9 years in college, and have 15 year xp as a professional, and just now am passing the hourly rate of some of these workers. College is a hard sell. Do they deserve the money they make? Does anyone really?Doesn't matter if someone is willing to pay it.
Now, I will be much better off in the long run but I am young. But as I said this is a generational issue. It will not change overnight. This has been going on for 100 years.
Pushing college has it's own problems as well. Not just any old degree/training is going to help you. And we all can't be lawyers/doctors
As an engineer I know lots of people with degrees. But, I still know more without. In fact, people with degrees are few and far between in most areas. And even more rare are people with degrees that will actually benefit them.
You also have to remember that a few very vocal posters do NOT represent the entire state. Most of them are not even in-state, just posting on the MI board and stirring things up. I have lived in MI most of my life and the areas I grew up in, and lived in as an adult, have very little racism and/or class envy. Where I am now is probably the most accepting of people I have EVER lived, and there is almost zero class-envy. Nobody cares what somebody else makes for a wage, what size house, type car they drive, or the type clothes they have. Elsewhere, there may be some, but really it is much less for the vast majority of the state than anyplace else I have been. People tend to make the mistake of judging the entire state by actions and perceptions of the NE corner, or larger cities. Just like PA is not all Pittsburgh, or the old stereotype of the Scranton area. MI is not Detroit, Saginaw, Flint, or even Grand Rapids.
Back when segregation was an accepted policy in this Country, where was one of the top destinations for African-American families to get away on vacation where they were accepted and welcomed? Idlewild, MI which is not too far away from where I grew up. My Grandfather and Grandmother welcomed passing black tourists into their little store for supplies and into their home if the need arose, just like they did for white travelers. They were NOT unique in this area. Some family friends had a resort on a lakeside in the area and welcomed people of every color. They lost some of their big city clients, but I remember when the race riots of the 60's were going on when I was a kid and sitting around a "community" campfire at the resort surrounded by Blacks, Whites and Latinos together talking about the days fishing, or other explorations; as well as the riots; and I wondered why everybody got along so well in our area and not in other areas, even areas only a hundred miles or so away. (Frankly I still wonder to tell the truth.)
Please don't judge the entire state by the rantings of a few very vocal idiots who can hide behind a computer keyboard and spread their stupidity.
I think what you're seeing in Michigan right now (at least the lower third) is the fallout of many generations that were able to live off corporations and government.
The combination created a culture where people turned something off within their minds. They began to expect someone else to solve the problems and provide for them - not just welfare, but also union jobs and even small businessses that fed the industries. People acted as if the economy that existed for a mere 80 years (which isn't very long) had always been there and would always be there.
A lot of the educated people go elsewhere - primarily to Chicago or the Northeast corridor. The University of Michigan - one of the premiere public universities in the world - only receives about 5-7% of its funding from the state.
The concept of creating an idea and turning it into something has faded from the culture. That said - some of the most brilliant minds and motivated people I have ever known have lived in Michigan outside the main infrastructure of the economy. They have created solutions to some of society's most pressing problems.
Anyone capable of harnessing that untapped potential stands a chance of turning the state around from within.
MI has always been a pretty segregated state. While a lot of it is contained in the Detroit forum on this website, I still notice some overt racism and some pretty ignorant discussions taking place in the MI forum. I know that MI is not totally different from many other states, but the Detroit area is a special case in itself if you're looking at racism and discrimination; many suburbs around Detroit were/still are known for their violent and ruthless housing covenants that dominated the area throughout the 50's, 60's and 70's. Many are still in place today, they're just no longer laws. Many Detroit suburbs have a long and practiced history of celebrating discrimination, Dearborn erected a statue for its racist and bigoted mayor. Its not a wonder why Grosse Point and other areas have little to no black presence whatsoever.
I moved to MI when I was in middle school, so I've lived here quite awhile, I have noticed some very distinct differences from where I lived in Ohio. Not to say that certain ideals are exclusive to MI only, I've just noticed that there seem to be more incidents of racial distress here in this state. Many stem from Detroit and other surrounding areas of blue-collar ideas and ethics. I will say this, though, MI is suffering from its continued blue-collar ways. There has always been a need to diversify and try to attract multiple forms of business. Michigan is definitely not the best in that area, and thats whats killing this state. GR is doing fairly well because of the mixed commercial/industrial business ventures in the area. The rest of MI cannot say the same.
I should have specified in my original post that by "educated" I didn't necessarily mean to imply a college degree exclusively. For example I know of skilled tradespeople in my own area who took the vocational/technical training track in high school, never went to college even for an associate's degree, and are quite economically successful today, even despite this deep recession. It doesn't take a phenomenal educational/financial investment if you're stuck in an economic rut to become a licensed massage therapist, licensed practical nurse (LPN), plumber, electrician, mason, etc., all of which will continue to be "hot" jobs in places like Michigan (aging population necessitates more medical field opportunities and your aging housing stock must be continuously renovated by skilled tradespeople). Professional truck drivers with their CDL are also always in demand. I know some truckers near me who earn upwards of $60,000 annually, which isn't too shabby for not having a degree.
I just tire of hearing everyone say "there's no jobs." There ARE jobs out there for those who are so inclined. No, they may not be exactly what you had in mind, but you're also not confined to them forever. I'm currently employed as a salesperson for a major home improvement retailer and am making a little over $11/hr. (plus commissions). Do I want to stay in this position forever? No. However it IS sufficient to get me by now until something in my field eventually DOES open up. I just put on a smiling face and try to put 110% effort into my work, knowing full well that it will pay off someday, especially if our new president can upright our deep recession. My father, an educated and veteran I/T manager, even worked for a while at a gas station and a grocery store to help provide financial support for our family until he was able to find something more commensurate with his experience level and skill set. Too many in America think that such jobs are "beneath" them. Instead of just swallowing their pride and doing them temporarily until something better DOES come along, they'd much rather just sit and wallow, blaming the government for what ails them while they collect checks paid for by hard-working folks like me. It really irritates me to no end. I'm fully prepared to stay in my current position for as long as necessary and am even considering picking up a second position as a waiter to make ends meat until something (anything) in my field opens up. Why can't others do the same?
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As a student working full-time to put myself through college, I'm OUTRAGED that a portion of my income goes to support families like that. 
